Is it time?

[starblazer]

For us to consider taking our organization to a higher level? I am extremely grateful for all of the hard work that has gone into establishing and maintaining this site. I know it has been discussed about a possible course for the future of the PAFOA. I cannot think of a better time to re open this discussion, with the inevitable assault on 2a rights of PA residents. Perhaps establishing some type of PAC? Mass mailings with form letters to our state senators and reps each time proposed gun laws come up? What do we need to do to become a real player in the political arena? Perhaps the GOA or NRA assists with startup of such organizations? Any thoughts? Suggestions? Criticism?

[billamj]

Based on the definition of a 501(c)4 that I am pasting below, it would be more than feasible. It would also require a lot more bookkeeping to make sure all of the i's were dotted and the t's crossed. I guess Dan would have to give us his thoughts on the matter.

501(c)(4)

501(c)(4) exemptions are given to civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.

See 26 U.S.C. § 501(c)(4)(A).

The exemption does not apply "unless no part of the net earnings of such entity inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual." See 26 U.S.C. § 501(c)(4)(B).

Deductibility of donations to 501(c)(4) organizations:

Unlike donations to the more prevalent 501(c)(3) non-profit organizations, donations to a section 501(c)(4) organization are not deductible by the donor under section 170 of the code unless the recipient organization is a volunteer fire department as described in revenue ruling 80-77 or veteran organizations with at least 90% of its membership consisting of war veterans as described in revenue ruling 84-140.

[phillyd2]

First I think that Dan will need to publish a mission statement on what he wants to do with this place. Just a gun talk forum or a active force protecting gun rights. If the latter, we will need to hear his thinking about the issue. For example, does he believe that a CCW is against Section 21 of the Pennsylvania Constitution?, etc. If so, issues like these will not be popular with the mainstream media. Does he want to look like a heartless bastard sticking up for gun rights when the next nut walks into a school? I for one do not blame him if the answer was NO. Who would?

Anyway, this is his forum so we need to hear what he has in mind.

[starblazer]

Originally Posted by phillyd2

Anyway, this is his forum so we need to hear what he has in mind.

I couldn't agree more. I only posted this question to get the thoughts rolling, and because I thougt I'd read somewhere that he did want to consider the option of going in that direction at some point. Of course, if he decided this was the way he wanted to go with this, it would be beneficial for all of us, to show whatever support we can ( time and money) to make that leap. Many states have had great successes pushing 2a rights at the grass roots level. That is the opportunity I see in its infancy here. And even if we're not so much about pushing more rights, at the very least we should be about not giving up any that we now enjoy. fwiw. keep the comments coming.

[danp]

Howdy all,

The PAFOA will very likely be a 501(c)4 non-profit organization within the next few months (these things take time).

Right now I've picked up a few books on the subject and have contacted lawyers who can help guide us through the process.

The issues standing in the way currently are:

1. I need to learn alot about running an NPO
2. I need to find other people to help me run the NPO
3. We need money

#3 is by far the biggest barrier stopping us from even getting started at the moment. From the lawyers I have had a chance to talk to so far about guiding us through the process of incorporation and receiving tax-exempt status, the rough estimate is $3,000. Unfortunately I do not personally have $3,000 to spend on this regardless of how much I want to.

I'm willing to put as much money as I can reasonably afford to into getting us incorporated but the simple fact of the matter is I really can't afford to do this on my own. So far we've received about $260 in donations but the overall costs of the site have been over $600.

As much as I hate to say it, we absolutely need donations from members to move this forward.

I wasn't planning on putting this information out there just yet, but since you guys brought it up I figured it'd be good to respond. I will be putting together a more organized post about all this once I have everything together.

All in all I agree with you guys totally, NOW IS THE TIME. After the elections yesterday it's readily apparent that gun owners may be facing hard times ahead and we need groups, especially local ones to stand up and fight it.

[greyhouse]

Originally Posted by danp

Howdy all,

The PAFOA will very likely be a 501(c)4 non-profit organization within the next few months (these things take time).

Right now I've picked up a few books on the subject and have contacted lawyers who can help guide us through the process.

The issues standing in the way currently are:

1. I need to learn alot about running an NPO
2. I need to find other people to help me run the NPO
3. We need money

#3 is by far the biggest barrier stopping us from even getting started at the moment. From the lawyers I have had a chance to talk to so far about guiding us through the process of incorporation and receiving tax-exempt status, the rough estimate is $3,000. Unfortunately I do not personally have $3,000 to spend on this regardless of how much I want to.

I'm willing to put as much money as I can reasonably afford to into getting us incorporated but the simple fact of the matter is I really can't afford to do this on my own. So far we've received about $260 in donations but the overall costs of the site have been over $600.

As much as I hate to say it, we absolutely need donations from members to move this forward.

I wasn't planning on putting this information out there just yet, but since you guys brought it up I figured it'd be good to respond. I will be putting together a more organized post about all this once I have everything together.

All in all I agree with you guys totally, NOW IS THE TIME. After the elections yesterday it's readily apparent that gun owners may be facing hard times ahead and we need groups, especially local ones to stand up and fight it.

I think it would be a good idea to make your intentions for the site clear for everyone to see and then put up some kind of donation drive. You will probably get a lot more donations that way. There are a lot of concerned gun owners in PA after the outcome of this election.

[phillyd2]

Originally Posted by greyhouse

I think it would be a good idea to make your intentions for the site clear for everyone to see and then put up some kind of donation drive. You will probably get a lot more donations that way. There are a lot of concerned gun owners in PA after the outcome of this election.

I have posted this exact same thing elsewhere and will do so again here. Speaking only for myself I will need to hear more details about the intentions of the site and what sort of effort we would be supporting.

[Frenchy]

I propose a Gun Bash...

300 Tickets, $25 each makes $7,500
First prize could be any gun $750 or less...
Second Prize, any gun $500 or less
Third prize, $250 in value or cash.
Total left $6000 to cover lawyers fees and 501(c)4
Now who are the 300 people? What are your Ideas, Dan thinks we cant sell even 50 tickets, Sign up lets see how many we could sell.

[billamj]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

I propose a Gun Bash...

300 Tickets, $25 each makes $7,500
First prize could be any gun $750 or less...
Second Prize, any gun $500 or less
Third prize, $250 in value or cash.
Total left $6000 to cover lawyers fees and 501(c)4
Now who are the 300 people? What are your Ideas, Dan thinks we cant sell even 50 tickets, Sign up lets see how many we could sell.

Great idea Frenchy! I'm in for a couple of tix.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

I propose a Gun Bash...

300 Tickets, $25 each makes $7,500
First prize could be any gun $750 or less...
Second Prize, any gun $500 or less
Third prize, $250 in value or cash.
Total left $6000 to cover lawyers fees and 501(c)4
Now who are the 300 people? What are your Ideas, Dan thinks we cant sell even 50 tickets, Sign up lets see how many we could sell.

Frenchy, this is a great idea. However, I believe there we have a Catch 22 here. I'm going to preface this right now by saying I'm not 100% sure, so take it FWIW.

What you're proposing is essentially a "raffle", which I believe is considered a form of gambling. I don't believe this type of raffle is permissible without either a permit, or already being a non-profit organization, or both.

So, we need the money from the raffle to register as a NPO, but we need to be an NPO to run the raffle.