They're after your shotguns

[jon'76]

Brady Center Takes Utah Dealer to Court for Selling Pistol Grip Shotgun to 18 Year Old Mass Shooter

The Brady Center Legal Action Project has taken a new case, representing Carolyn Tuft, a mother whose daughter was killed in a mass shooting at a popular shopping mall in Salt Lake City, Utah. The killer, armed with two high-powered firearms, a backpack full of ammunition, and a bandolier of shotgun shells around his waist, turned the mall into a war zone in a matter of minutes. Five people were killed, and four wounded, including an off-duty police officer.

The lawsuit contends that the gun dealer is liable for the shootings. One of the firearms he sold to the killer was a pistol-grip shotgun, which federal law prohibits from selling to anyone under 21. The killer was 18 at the time.


I don't believe that's illegal at all, but instead perfectly legal and COMMON.


link: http://www.gunlawsuits.org/

[BenningBoy]

Someone clear this up quickly, a Mossberg 500 with a cruiser grip is not a shotgun? A pistol grip makes it somehow more lethal?

[JayBell]

actually, a purely pistolgripped shotgun (pump or semi) IS restricted to 21yrs or older on FFL sales, for some reason....if its a combo like the mossbergs with pistolgrip AND buttstock, its OK for 18yrs old from FFL sales.

its an oddity of sales law, but when i was working in a gunshop, I was shown the info from the ATF about factory pistolgripped shotguns that never had a buttstock.

it's still a shotgun, but sales AGE restrictions are to be considered like the shotty was a pistol.

ATF FFL Newsletter, August 1998:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/ne...er/ffl0898.pdf

"AGE RESTRICTION REMINDER
Licensees are reminded that certain commercially
produced “shotguns” do not fall within the
definition of shotgun under the GCA. Firearms
such as the Mossberg Model 500 Camper,
Persuader 500 and all other makes and models,
which come equipped with a pistol grip in place
of the butt stock, are not shotguns under the GCA.
Therefore, they cannot be sold or delivered by a
licensee to any person less than 21 years of age."


I believe that they are getting this due to the fact that the GCA of 68 specifies that a shotgun is as below:

"(5) The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade
to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of
ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger."


since a shotgun is defined as "intended to be fired from the shoulder" and the pistolgrip shotty has no buttstock, then its a shotgun, but they treat it like a pistol.

[jon'76]

I have NEVER heard of this before. I think most FFLs would sell an 18 year old a pistol grip shotgun. If you're correct this is ridiculous and something needs to be done/said.

[BenningBoy]

Thank you, Jaybell, I learn something everyday!

[jon'76]

That is RIDICULOUS!

So I just have to buy my pistol grip online now .

[Pyrotek85]

Even if the dealer made a mistake selling it, that obviously still doesn't leave him liable for the shooting itself. A normal shotgun would have resulted in the same outcome.

[BenningBoy]

Originally Posted by Pyrotek85

Even if the dealer made a mistake selling it, that obviously still doesn't leave him liable for the shooting itself. A normal shotgun would have resulted in the same outcome.

Obviously a pistol grip only shotgun looks more menacing, and therefore increases its lethality tenfold. Add a heatshield, and you have an assault monster. Seriously, had one, and found it difficult at best to shoot accurately, a stock might have increased the outcome.

[Pyrotek85]

That's what I was thinking. It's not like a movie where you could hold it outstretched with one arm and still shoot accurately.

[BenningBoy]

Originally Posted by Pyrotek85

That's what I was thinking. It's not like a movie where you could hold it outstretched with one arm and still shoot accurately.

Exactly. I'm a big boy, and fairly strong, and I tried the movie stuff. One handing it, forget it. From the hip, no way. This was all in my youth, when the movie stuff seemed believable.