M91/30 Russian Question???

[muskrat24]

I was wondering with the info I have can you tell me if my dad's M91/39 is fake or real.

The top of the barrel near the loading breech has a square with branch looking things coming off of it and a symbol in the centrer. Then below that it reads 1941. Below that 3n382 and below that the Izhevsk triangle symbol. I am forgetting something. Then on the side of the writing it says M91/30 Russian 7.62x54r, under that C.A.I Georgia VT and under that 9130031194. I think that is the right order. I will look at it tommorrow to make sure it is write. Thanks for your time.





Muskrat24

[Steve in PA]

What makes you think its a fake? It sounds like a run of the mill import.

[762xIan]

Are you are confused because of the "C.A.I Georgia VT" markings? If so, I believe it is a requirement for the importer to stamp it.

Sounds like your dad probably has a good Mosin shooter and if the 1941 is correct there is a good probability it was made with a little more care and quality than the later WW2 ones.

[PA Rifleman]

Originally Posted by muskrat24

I was wondering with the info I have can you tell me if my dad's M91/39 is fake or real.

That would be a 91/30, by the information you've listed elsewhere in your post.

Forging a 91/30 is analagous to forging a penny. It isn't worth the effort given the value and return. So, by fake I assume you ask whether it's a recent import, or a pre-1984 import (typically GI bringback from W.W.II, Korea or Viet Nam). Most Mosins are worth only about $100 in pristine condition, mostly due to the Russians and a succession of eastern European countries flooding the US market with them. There are probably more Mosins in the US now than anywhere else in the world. The next highest Mosin-possessing country is either China or Africa, where a popular pasttime in Somalia is pin-the-peasant-on the-bayonet.


The most common fakes are the more expensive 91/30 sniper rifles. With the proliferation of original and post-war scopes made to wartime specifications, the temptation has been a little too much for some. Unless your rifle has the PU scope, or the highly coveted PE telescopic sight, it is very likely the "real deal". See the link later in this post for more information on this subject.

Originally Posted by muskrat24

The top of the barrel near the loading breech has a square with branch looking things coming off of it and a symbol in the centrer. Then below that it reads 1941. Below that 3n382 and below that the Izhevsk triangle symbol.

Have you done a Google search under Mosin Nagant markings? If so, you've undoubtedly seen:
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinMarks.htm
http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/mosi...t_markings.asp
http://www.surplusrifle.com/russianm...9130/index.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin-Nagant

Originally Posted by muskrat24

Then on the side of the writing it says M91/30 Russian 7.62x54r,

Model, country, ammunition size. Inscribed by the importer, and the most often omitted information by arms makers.

Originally Posted by muskrat24

under that C.A.I Georgia VT

Importer-Century Arms International

Originally Posted by muskrat24

and under that 9130031194.

US-assigned serial number. Note that it rarely matches the original serial number on the chamber. These last markings positively ID as a post-1984 import. Without any other information about the gun, no futher assessment can be done. A more detailed post, preferrably with pictures (example) would go along way.

Has the head space been checked, or test fired? What is the bore condition? Is the muzzle counterbored? Although extremely unlikely in your case, use extreme caution (better yet-don't fire it) if you find the name BANNERMAN or "30-06" in small print anywhere on it.

Here's a gift suggestion for Dad:
http://www.amazon.com/Mosin-Nagant-R.../dp/1882391217

[muskrat24]

Ok I am a little confused on some of this stuff. I talked to my dad last night and he got it at Dunhams sporting good store and were told it is shootable. We have shot it I just havn't payed any attention to it until recently as far as numbers and markings. I guess when I asked if it was fake was basically I was asking if it was a copy or one that was made on 1941 and brought back . I know it is a little hard figuring this stuff out without pics or even seeing it, I will try and get pics soon if I can. Also what exactly is the head space? I am 16 and not very familiar with firearms, and PA rifleman sorry I ment M91/30 Thanks for your time.


Muskrat24

[PA Rifleman]

Originally Posted by muskrat24

...I guess when I asked if it was fake was basically I was asking if it was a copy or one that was made on 1941 and brought back .

No, it was made in 1941. It's a real W.W.II rifle. And there are countless numbers of them.

Originally Posted by muskrat24

Also what exactly is the head space?

Click here for more info about headspace.
Gauges - more - what you're looking for - 7.62x54R.

Disassembly.
Mosin FAQ.

If you've already shot it, take a look at the brass or empties. Look for signs of stretching or bulging at the base near the rim. No major bulges or stretching=good sign.

If you were closer to SE Pennsylvania, I'd check it for you.