AR-15 Range

[Kiski Cowboy]

I'm getting ready to start an AR-15 project, and need to get some advice. I'm planning on going with an Anvil Arms lower receiver, and with a Del-Ton Rifle Kit. I'm still torn if I want to go with a 20" barrel, or with a 16" barrel on it. I'm highly familiar with the 20" barel length, from having served 15 years in the Army. As such, I'm going to go with the A2 style upper, as I do prefer the iron sights.

My question, for those of you who shoot AR's on a competative basis, what is the maximum range for the 16" barrel, versus the maximum range for the 20" barrel? I know I can reach out and touch someone very well at 300 meters, but have never had the opportunity to shoot one at ranges beyond 300 meters.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by Kiski Cowboy

I'm highly familiar with the 20" barel length, from having served 15 years in the Army. As such, I'm going to go with the A2 style upper, as I do prefer the iron sights.

I'd still recommend an A3 (flat top). You'll have the best of both worlds.

My question, for those of you who shoot AR's on a competative basis, what is the maximum range for the 16" barrel, versus the maximum range for the 20" barrel? I know I can reach out and touch someone very well at 300 meters, but have never had the opportunity to shoot one at ranges beyond 300 meters.

I don't shoot competition but a premium 16 inch barrel (noveske / lilja, etc.) will shoot sub MOA. I've hit pepper poppers at 400 yards with a Colt 6920 (16 inch bbl) and an aimpoint. The advantage is the shorter barrels are allot handier.

[Lycanthrope]

Barrel length from 16" to 20" will have no bearing on accuracy with both barrels being equal. The 20" will have more speed.

I find the 20" guns balance better for offhand and the 16" guns swing faster. The 20" guns have a softer gas pulse.

My favorite rifle is my 18" with full length gas system.

With good loads and a decent floated, non chromed barrel, most every AR shoots at least 1 moa.

Lycandon'tsweatitthrope

[JDePietro]

All above are correct!

The more and more people that play with the different lengths the more myth is debunked. 16 in barrels off every bit as much accuracy, what you loose is speed.

+1 for the flattop, you can always put a detachable carry handle or flip up sites or, or, or, well you get my point.

I don't know very much about the Del-ton kits, but I would suggest that if competition is going to be your aim you go with a more known. Rock River, DPMS, Colt, Stag, any of those will offer you parts kits that will be competition grade. I'm not bashing Del-ton but if you are going to compete than the sweetness of cheaper parts fades quickly in the face of bitter quality.

My favorite rifle is my 18" with full length gas system.

On a side not, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a 18 barrel? If your gas system is higher on the barrel don't you loose any extra speed you should get with the 18 over the 16? (Which really isn't that much anyway?)

[ALS]

I use to knock down Rams at 380 meters with 55 gn with a 16 inch barrel on my CAR out at Greater Pitt. I own several Colt AR15's and my favorite is my Government Model. Full length 20 inch barrel but not a heavy barrel like the HBAR's. It is just a really nice and comfortable gun to shoot. It is a pretty light gun considering it is a full size A2 configuration. It also is much more balanced than my HBAR.
If your planning on building an AR, I would recommend either or both of these books.
The Complete Guide to AR-15 Accuracy by Derrick Martin and The Competitive AR-15 by Glen Zediker. Any questions you may have on what works and what doesn't will be answered in these books.
Both state there is no difference in accuracy between a 24 inch barrel and a 16 inch barrel. The longer barrel does give you a better sight radius over the shorter barrel.

[Lycanthrope]

Originally Posted by JDePietro

I don't know very much about the Del-ton kits, but I would suggest that if competition is going to be your aim you go with a more known. Rock River, DPMS, Colt, Stag, any of those will offer you parts kits that will be competition grade. I'm not bashing Del-ton but if you are going to compete than the sweetness of cheaper parts fades quickly in the face of bitter quality.

On a side not, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a 18 barrel? If your gas system is higher on the barrel don't you loose any extra speed you should get with the 18 over the 16? (Which really isn't that much anyway?)

Del-Ton guns shoot around 1moa....and often a bit better, if you work a load for them. I think they are using Shaw barrels these days.....most everyone is using Shaw or Wilson in a kit and they work just fine.

Depending on the type of competition, 1 moa can be fine....such as some local 3 gun that doesn't shoot beyond 200 yards...or reduced course CMP (CMP guns need to be 20" though in Service Rifle Division). For out past 300 yards in a pure accuracy standpoint, you want to be reloading with heavier bullets and you'll need a good floated barrel with 1:7 twist. Price tends to go up at that point, but a White Oak barrel can be had for $250 and will do the job nicely.

The 18" has the gas port further down the barrel than a 16" gun....so the bullet loses pressure behind it later..... Although....the gas port really isn't bleeding off much "oomph" anyhow in either case.

The real advantage in the 18" barrel with the 20"/rifle gas system is that the longer gas tube makes a smoother/softer recoil pulse.....and you get to see your hits in the scope at 300...as well as get back on target faster. With a good brake, it just sits there and tells you to "hurry up".

Lycansmallchangesthrope

[Kiski Cowboy]

I appreciate all the great feedback so far from everybody. Not really planning to do much in the way of competitions at this point, just wanting an AR to have fun with. If there is any type of competition down the road, it would likely be CMP shooting, and thus needing the 20" barrel length. Although the A3/A4 flatrail has its advantages for adding optics, I'm still a big fan of the A2 iron sights.

While part of me really wants a 16" CAR setup, with a collapsible buttstock, another part of me wants a standard 20" rifle with an A2 buttstock. I'll make up my mind on the upper eventually, but will be ordering up a lower from Anvil Arms in the near future (waiting for a few questions to be answered by Jon, and to see some artwork I inquired about).

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by Kiski Cowboy

Although the A3/A4 flatrail has its advantages for adding optics, I'm still a big fan of the A2 iron sights.

You can still have the best of both worlds. The removable carry handle utilizes the A2 sighting system.

[Kiski Cowboy]

Starting to do some looking around for AR-15 lower receivers. Was thinking highly of going with a stripped lower from Anvil Arms, but I can't seem to get the info I requested from them. I've sent several requests to them, looking to see a sample of artwork that I would like to have laser engraved on it. Got one answer back from Jon, sent him a return email with the info he requested, and have heard nothing back since.

I know a lot of folks here have gotten great service from Anvil Arms, but quite frankly, I'm getting ready to look someplace else for a lower at this point. When I'm looking for information about a pending purchase, I do like it when I get answers to my questions from the manufacturer/distributor.

Can anybody tell me about the quality of CMMG lower receivers, or DPMS lowers?

[ungawa]

Originally Posted by Kiski Cowboy

Although the A3/A4 flatrail has its advantages for adding optics, I'm still a big fan of the A2 iron sights.

As others have said, 16" will not sacrifice accuracy. Just more bullet drop at longer ranges. Once you are shooting beyond 500-600 the drop gets to be measured in yards, so you need to know it anyway and the reduced drop won't help much. Added muzzle velocity might help against wind a little, but not compared with heavier bullets.

Like TonyF said, just get the flat top with the carrying handle. It will be the same for now, but you can change it later.

One word of caution - the flat top is called A4. Many civilian manufacturers call it A3. Unlikely you would make that mistake, just be aware.