New 7.62x39

[scoutjoe]

Originally Posted by RocketFoot

You can easily become 922r compliant by making sure you have the minimum number of US made parts on your gun. First, do a search for Saiga 922r and see how many parts are recognized on the rifle. You must have 10 or less foreign made parts, so if your rifle has 15 recognized parts, you need to replace 5 parts with US parts to make it compliant. the mag is 1 so you on the way! LOL

Magazine, Floorplate and Follower (3 parts)
Gas Piston
Reciever
hand guard
stock
Hammer
trigger
disconnector

[RocketFoot]

Originally Posted by scoutjoe

Magazine, Floorplate and Follower (3 parts)
Gas Piston
Reciever
hand guard
stock
Hammer
trigger
disconnector

Yep, I just saw that...mag = 3 parts and the Saiga 7.62 has 14 recognized parts, so all you need is one other US made part to be good to go!

Quoted from Saiga Forum: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=18530

Parts List

Here’s a quick overview of the parts count determined by the ATF definition letter listed at http://www.soupbowl.kalashnikov.guns.ru/page12.html. For the Saiga rifles, refer to the Galil/AK parts count. The Saiga Shotguns are directly referenced.

A Saiga Rifle in factory configuration has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun threaded for chokes has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun not threaded for chokes has 13 parts.

(parts on a factory config saiga are in bold)

(1) Receiver
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion (rifles only)
(5) Muzzle attachments (shotguns w/ threaded barrels only)
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstock
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates



Examples:

You have a Saiga-12 with factory threaded barrel. (14 parts) You want to convert it to pistol grip configuration. You will need 5 U.S. made parts to make it a U.S. firearm since adding a pistol grip is adding a part from the list.

-or-

You have a Saiga-7.62x39 and want to use high capacity magazines. Since high capacity magazines are considered “unsporting”, and would be in violation of 922®. Your rifle with mag has 14 parts. Use U.S. made mags and one additional U.S. made part like a gas piston and you are good to go.

-or-

You have a Saiga-410 and want to use the factory 10 round magazines. This is believed to be considered high-capacity in a shotgun and be in violation of 922®. You will need to remove imported parts and replace them with U.S. made parts so you have no more than 10 imported ones total.



Grey Areas

Sporting Purposes…
While this was defined in the now-defunct AWB of 1994, the term "Sporting Purposes" is in actuality determined by the opinion of the Secretary of the Treasury. There is no clear ruling on what exactly that means so adding a bayonet lug or flash hider to the firearm may be considered "unsporting" and in violation of 922®.

High Capacity Magazines…
It has been argued what exactly high capacity magazine means. Generally it has been understood that the magazine limit for rifles is 10 rounds and shotguns is 5. Anymore than that and it’s considered “unsuitable for sporting purposes”. Problem is there are no clear definitions stating that exactly.

Flash Hider/Muzzle Brakes/Compensators…
Any type of FH, Brake, Comp or choke are considered muzzle devices. They are included in the parts count. However there has been some disagreement in the past as to whether adding a muzzle brake constitutes making the imported weapon “unsporting”.

Shotgun Chokes…
It’s also arguable whether chokes are considered a part or not and the threading itself is not considered a part, but to be on the safe side I’d consider a choke or thread protector a muzzle device.

Shotgun Pistons…
It’s been the general understanding that the grooved plug in the gas block on the shotguns is considered the piston and the rod on the bolt carrier is either and operating rod or carrier extension. The gas piston on the rifles and other AK’s is the part that is threaded into the bolt carrier.

Parts count difference between the rifles and shotguns…
The main difference between the rifle and shotguns parts counts is the shotguns do not have #(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion. I don’t really understand that part because to be they look to have the same general construction, but that is how the definitions are listed by the ATF themselves.



922 ® in short…

Section 922®, of Title 18, U.S.C. prohibits assembly of certain semiautomatic rifles from imported parts. The implementing regulations in Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) section 178.39(a), provide that no person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph © of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d) (3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

For further information about 922®, go to the ATF Website or http://uscode.house.gov/ and search for 18 U.S.C. § 922® and 27 CFR § 478.39 of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968.



In Summary

So you made it through all the gibberish above, I hope I have enlightened you a little about the legalities of modifying a Saiga. In short, convert the thing to a U.S. made firearm and do whatever you want to it. Just mind your parts count!

922® isn't such a bad thing, think of all the U.S. business you are helping to support. Also you are turning that ugly little antelope into a much more graceful looking thing of beauty! Remember, a factory configuration Saiga is an example of what the gun control fanatics would like to have all assault weapons look like. Do your job to support the American economy and convert them to U.S. made firearms!

[scoutjoe]

Originally Posted by RocketFoot

Yep, I just saw that...mag = 3 parts and the Saiga 7.62 has 14 recognized parts, so all you need is one other US made part to be good to go!

but the next trick is if the gun is able to accept a standard AK mag, your in violation. So generally banking on the magazine for compliance is bad news.

So it will depend if those mags he has are modded to the gun, or if the gun is modded to the mags. Either way its easy to play the parts game if you are planning to convert or not.

[RocketFoot]

Originally Posted by scoutjoe

but the next trick is if the gun is able to accept a standard AK mag, your in violation. So generally banking on the magazine for compliance is bad news.

So it will depend if those mags he has are modded to the gun, or if the gun is modded to the mags. Either way its easy to play the parts game if you are planning to convert or not.

Very good point, ScoutJoe...if he uses non US mags, he's back to square one! LOL

[TJB63]

As Far as 922r goes,

Does anyone know of anyone who has been pulled in on it?? I mean if you were to commit an unlawful act, I'm sure it may come into play, But I wouldn't expect someone to walk up on a range an arrest me for not having enough 922r parts in my rifle.

In addition wouldn't the Dealer who sold him the rifle be liable in some way??
I mean when he bought the rifle, I'm sure he thought he was buying something that was perfectly legal.

I'm just curious cause it would seem to me that most would not know a compliant part from a non-compliant. Looking at my AK's I couldn't tell you which was which.

TJB

[scoutjoe]

I've never seen anything officially busting someone about 922r, like you said it seems to be an "add on" charge. That being said...why poke the sleeping bear?

I don't know if the dealer is liable, I wish some of them would be held but its doubtful.

"compliant parts" are marked "US" or "made in USA" some way designating them from unmarked parts.

[Roland of Gilead]

Well, this is interesting info been added here, I'll have to check what all is in this thing. (Thanks everyone for the checklist and info.)

I paid $435 out the door, which was a little steep, I thought, but I've been watching prices go up up up online (for a CIA AK-47 from http://www.budsgunshop.com for example, if they're even in stock), and the couple guys who had AKs at the show were asking $450 (for a CIA) and $545 (for some Bulgarian stuff). My option was to wait for the Valley Forge show, but I'd been kind of antsy for a while now.

At any rate, it's a 7.62 zombie stopper, and it's mine, so we'll see what might have to happen next.

[ccp72]

Well, now for my two cents:
I would add a Tapco trigger, an Ergo pistol grip, and an Ace AKFX sidefolder w/ recvr. block. Charlie at Precision Armaments in Slatington, Pa. does the conversions from the "hunter"(ha!), to traditional AK configuration, does really nice work, and has a fast turnaround time.

In the end, you should have a compact, sexy EBR.

Good Luck.

[nfafan]

Originally Posted by Pector55

Very nice! After looking at some water bottles I shot with .223 yesterday, I feel the need to get away from .223 and 5.45. I shot a Propel water bottle at 100yds and my son laughed at me because it didn't move. After the 4th shot, it fell to the ground. We walked down to set it back up and there were 3 holes in it. I only missed it once.

<snip>

Fear not the behavior of the 5.56 and 5.45; I seen the same thing with my 8mm Hakim on plastic jugs... I blasted away and - nada.

I knew there was no way I coulda missed.

I later discovered that I was shredding the jugs at such hyper-speeds that they didn't even sway.

I'd bet it was just the high velocity of the 5.56 and 5.45 that made the targets act as they did as opposed to the slower, heavier 7.62x39.

[DoogieB]

The thing about this rifle is that it's obviously not in compliance 922r with a hi-cap mag. Any LEO that knows anything about AK's could spot that a 100 yds away.

Basically, you need to install a pistol grip to become legal: That would get you enough US parts. It's doable, but not easy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5-z7eXzWgc

I looked briefly at the Saiga conversion, since the rifle has high reps- mainly because it's Russian. But for all the grief you have to go through, you still get a wobbly magazine and the gas section still doesn't look "AK" anyway. For $350, the WASR-10 is still a good deal.

Also, are those AK mags modified or stock?