Top 10 Combat Rifles

[Pa.Bill]

Ok, we know they have a bunch of 'TOP 10's'
I think the next Top 10 should be Handguns.

Like 'Top 10 combat handguns' or 'Top 10 handguns that changed the world' or 'Top 10 most popular handguns of the world.'

I think I'll sent them a suggestion.

~BEST~
Bill--------------------------------->

[Laufer]

Good evening gentlemen: Pardon the length of this.

I'm just a middle-aged guy who last fall became interested in frequent plinking-having done very little (and only with the ancient .22 or pellet guns) when I was young. Certainly the least-experienced of anybody on the seven gun websites which I try to learn from (mostly plink alone).
Went out and bought a few carbines this winter/spring: used Mini 14 & 30, (unfired Nor.) SKS and MN 44, being really attracted by dependable, lower-cost, combat-style rifles, but not so much by civilian-style guns. Sold the new AO M-1 Carbine, even after the breakdown was repaired quite well by the factory. In a nutshell, certainly a relative novice who now lives outside the city, with more options open.

I asked a buddy, who is on the Navy (Reserve) Rifle Team, a question. I've worked with him several times, and the guy is quite experienced with rifles: they shoot the AR-15 on the Team. He was a fleet P-3 pilot, then flew them with Customs before leaving active govt. service. Had no infantry or other LEO experience etc.

IThe question was not meant to be provocative or suggest that the effectiveness of American-made guns is in doubt, but I asked "M." : "If you were in a dusty/dirty combat situation with no chance to ever clean a gun, would you prefer the AR-15 or a Russian-made gun (he has had an AK)?" I've only fired 12 rounds through a friend's AR-15 and have read multiple pages about them and several other combat rifles, US, Soviet, German, British, hoping to learn, but have about zero practical experience with any of them.

My point was simple survival. His only answer: "Oh, probably an AK-47". This really surprised me, as "M." is quite a marksman with the AR (last week at Camp Perry, OH, twice recently at Quantico, VA), and he has used his M-1 Garand in secondary matches elsewhere. Among other situations, I've read about how so many troops in Desert Storm wrapped their M-16s (M-4s) in plastic bags, hoping that they would be dependable in combat, but the full context might not have been clear to me. Having read lots of comparisons on the Internet, it seems-to put it in a nutshell- like heresy, a dirty topic, to ask whether guys would prefer a weapon produced by our former Cold War enemies or a US-made rifle etc to get them through any situation.
Why do politics/patriotism so often get in the way of clear, frank discussions of simple survival among many combat veterans on gun websites? I won't elaborate upon what several Vietnam/Desert Storm veterans stated on a quite interesting website which I stumbled upon two nights ago, i.e. some of our guys found dead in Vietnam with guns which were being broken down...but we always read that the gun has been vastly improved over the decades. Maybe, among many other things, I'm mistaken about typical combat ranges in most conflicts.

There seem to be some serious doubts, from what a US (recently 16 months in Iraq) infantry veteran told me two weeks ago-we chatted only briefly in MCI, he was in transit from Ft. Riley, KS. But lots of veterans are persuasive with the fact that the guns can be kept clean and so many more rounds of ammo can be carried for the same weight as lots of .30 caliber rounds. We always seem to look down on, or despise cruder weapons than what our country routinely produces, as if precision/accuracy always equals better survivability. This is a totally sincere attempt to figure out what people believe, which will always be colored by experience and perspective.
Sorry that this took so much space and wore out anyone's patience etc.

[bailguy84]

Originally Posted by Pector55

I know the FAL was used by both the British and the Argentinians -sp? during their fight over the Falklands but where else was it used in combat? I saw a History channel special on the Falklands and apparently the Brits were using the FAL in semi-auto and Argentina had a full auto version. On the top 10 show, they reported that the round was difficult to control in full auto.

UHHHHH N. Ireland !!!! Been killing my people with it there for years, i wouldnt touch one just because the crown forces use it.. But its another example of where it has been used, in the streets of Belfast..

[Pector55]

Originally Posted by bailguy84

UHHHHH N. Ireland !!!! Been killing my people with it there for years, i wouldnt touch one just because the crown forces use it.. But its another example of where it has been used, in the streets of Belfast..

Seriously, what is the purpose of the "UHHHHHH?"

[Tater]

The FN FAL has been in every conflict since the late 1950's.

*EDIT*

Oops! I guess I should've read page 3 before posting...
Below is the reason it was called THE FREE WORLD'S RIGHT ARM

[Tater]

My top 10 would've been;

1.Belgian FN FAL 50.00
2.South African Armscor R1
3.Austrian STG58
4.German G1
5.British L1A1
6.American T48
7.Brazilian Imbel FAL
8.Argentina FMAP FAL
9.Israeli FAL
10.Indian Ishapore 1A


Nobody said they couldn't all be FAL's!

[762xIan]

Tater, great job....that ought to ruffle some feathers...

[MARDET]

Amen brother Tater!
Love your top ten list....I'd put the Imbel higher up because they are still cranking them out, but thats just me.

"Right Arm of the Free World" isn't just a slogan....anywhere an AK has been since the 50's it was usually an FAL on the other side.

[Tater]

Thanks 762xIan and MARDET

Truthfully the Ishapore rifle shouldn't even be on the top 100 list but I was in a hurry. I also forgot the early Force Publique FAL's.

[chauncey]

I think it is BS that the HK-91/G3 and the Mosin weren't included.

1903 was a limited service use, except for sniper rifles, and that was not what the list was supposed to evaluate.

btw, who gives a heck about the AUG? so it was the first bullpup. other than that, it hasn't done much. even mentioning British and French bullpups as "best of the rest" was an abomination, imo. too new, limited track record, poor showing by the Brit rifle.

I love the M14, and it is a superb rifle, but its limited service life, lack of innovative features (over the M1 rifle, esp.), and comparatively minimal combat use should have knocked it off the list, especially considering that its recent resurgence is as a DMR and sniper rifle, again not part of the scope of the list.

FAL should have been #2, not that plastic fantastic hunk of crap.

I can live with the rest.