Permit to carry - muddy waters

[Steve in PA]

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

Sorry, but yes, you certainly do need a license. If you carry a firearm in a vehicle, without a license, you obviously are guilty of this:

"(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree."


There are limited exceptions, such as moving residences, or travelling to a target range.

The original post was about moving with an unloaded handgun;

"Lets say that this person was transporting the gun along with all of his other worldly possessions from the house his ex-girlfriend kicked him out of to his new home. Would that person need to go out and get a permit to transport the weapon to his new home?"

You do NOT need to have a permit to move from one residence to another. Nor do you need the permit for target shooting, taking it to a gunsmith, etc.

There is also nothing defining "secure wrapper". Is a hard case a "secure wrapper"? What about a soft case? Is there a difference between a case and a holster?

You don't have to be "moving" to transport the firearm. What if he is planning on going shooting or hunting with his buddy in the morning and wants to drop off his firearms there? No permit is needed to move them.

[General Geoff]

Well, assuming you're otherwise elegible for a carry permit, you'd at worst be guilty of a first degree misdemeanor. So it's not the end of the world, even if they convict you.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

You don't have to be "moving" to transport the firearm. What if he is planning on going shooting or hunting with his buddy in the morning and wants to drop off his firearms there? No permit is needed to move them.

I really don't want to pick on you, Steve, but the exceptions are interpreted very narrowly by the courts. Convictions have been upheld where someone purchased a firearm, and on the way from the gunshop to his home he stopped at a 7-11. This was held to be 2 trips, one from the shop to the 7-11, and another from the 7-11 to his home, and neither of these trips falls within the exception for the place of purchase to his home.

He really does have to be actively in the process of moving his stuff from his old residence to his new residence for the exception to apply, he can't just invoke the words "I'm moving this week". He also can't say that he's planning on hunting or target shooting the next day. Maybe a cop or a judge or a jury would cut him some slack, but he COULD be arrested and he COULD be convicted.

Also, conviction of a 1st degree misdemeanor is a prohibiting offense, since it's a State misdemeanor punishable by more than 2 years imprisonment. If he's convicted, he isn't a gun owner any more. So it may not be the end of the world, but it's close, if you're a regular visitor to this site.

[Rule10b5]

Regardless of whether Steve or Gunlawyer is correct, the bottom line here is that your hypothetical friend has already been arrested and charged.

The proper course of action under facts such as these is to suck it up and hire a lawyer who handles firearms violations. Your hypothetical friend has (no hypothetical offense intended) neither the skill nor the credibility to argue for inclusion in one of the exceptions pro se.

This is NOT one of those situations where you try to come in and explain things to the judge yourself -- the stakes are too high. The mere fact that very knowledgable officers (Steve) and lawyers (Gunlawyer) can disagree on the meaning of the statute should tell you that your hypothetical friend that he can expect no different from the Judge or the ADA assigned to your case.

[The Drew]

as far as I'm concerned it is questions like this when I tell people that there is really no excuse for not having a permit. It costs so little, and as long as you can pass a background check to purchase a handgun, then you can get a license to carry.

Having a permit totally exempts you from all these silly rules as to how firearms must be transported.

[dmg1969]

I don't remember if this has been asked or not, but does your "friend" have any prior convictions which would prohibit him from owning a handgun? Also, as was said before, I hope you had other stuff that you were moving in the car when you were stopped. I don't think a judge or jury will buy that you were just moving your gun on that particular trip.

Dave G.