juvenile record caused denial

[turkbender]

i never volentered nor protested i was more or less just along for the ride listening to what now seems to have been some bad directions from my parents.

[turkbender]

gunlawyer do you know what provision that is under the ufa? I have made an appointment with a lawyer for this friday but would like to have afairly good idea of whats ahead and have my information straight so i am not completely clueless sitting inhis office.. THANK YOU EVERYONE .. you all have shed some light on this subject for me... I am still in shock that i was able to be in the us military shoot 9mm pistol's, m-16's, handle grenades, drive tanks,50 cal machine guns, and have in civilian life been authorized via govt background checks to council youths .. but am not allowed to own a pistol..thanks again everybody...

[Pierce8468]

Dont be too discouraged by the denial. I was denied to purchase a .38 about 3 weeks after bieng issued my LTCF, and after allready purchasing 7 other Guns. Because of a disorderly conduct arrest, that was there the entire time. I appealed the ruling and won my rights to purchase guns again, about a month later.

[Willtallica]

Parents need to know something - if you want to help your kids, leave them the f alone!

Sounds like you're going to have a lot of fun. If there's something on your record which said mental illness I don't think they'll take your word for it, and will actually force you to get a doctor's approval before they'll consider otherwise.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by turkbender

gunlawyer do you know what provision that is under the ufa? I have made an appointment with a lawyer for this friday but would like to have afairly good idea of whats ahead and have my information straight so i am not completely clueless sitting inhis office.. THANK YOU EVERYONE .. you all have shed some light on this subject for me... I am still in shock that i was able to be in the us military shoot 9mm pistol's, m-16's, handle grenades, drive tanks,50 cal machine guns, and have in civilian life been authorized via govt background checks to council youths .. but am not allowed to own a pistol..thanks again everybody...

It's going to be under Title 18, Section 6105(f). Here's a heavily redacted copy that shows just the relevent parts (the 6105(c) prohibition and the 6105(f) relief):

§ 6105. Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms.

(a) Offense defined.--

1. A person ......... whose conduct meets the criteria in subsection (c) shall not possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture or obtain a license to possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture a firearm in this Commonwealth.

.........

(c) Other persons.--In addition to any person who has been convicted of any offense listed under subsection (b), the following persons shall be subject to the prohibition of subsection (a):

.......

4. A person who has been adjudicated as an incompetent or who has been involuntarily committed to a mental institution for inpatient care and treatment under section 302, 303 or 304 of the provisions of the act of July 9, 1976 (P.L.817, No.143), known as the Mental Health Procedures Act. This paragraph shall not apply to any proceeding under section 302 of the Mental Health Procedures Act unless the examining physician has issued a certification that inpatient care was necessary or that the person was committable.

............


(f) Other exemptions and proceedings.--

1. Upon application to the court of common pleas under this subsection by an applicant subject to the prohibitions under subsection (c)(4), the court may grant such relief as it deems appropriate if the court determines that the applicant may possess a firearm without risk to the applicant or any other person.

[ithinkimamedic]

Originally Posted by Willtallica

Parents need to know something - if you want to help your kids, leave them the f alone!

Willtallica I tend to disagree, while there should be a certian amount of "leaving your child alone" when it comes to life there definatly needs to be some involvement and guidance. Overbearing parents (as it sounds may be the case) are on the other hand not needed, I think we can definatly come to that agreement. Seeing what I have in the last 7 years in EMS and dealing with people though some of the worst times of their lives I can definatly say that some times what the child interprets as parents being "overbearing" is infact them simply doing the best they can and in their childs best intrest. This is something I have come realize over time and I feel is fairly accurate; though there people that fall outside the status quote.

[/hyjack end]

Turkbender it sounds like you have been "victim" of overbearing parents in this instance and you (with out knowing specifics) have a good case to have that removed from your records (if that is possible). Good luck with your meeting and I'm sorry I havent been able to really give you much more to work with. Additionally thanks for you service to the country, it is appreciated.

Cheers,
Josh

[turkbender]

I agree medic Parents do need to play an active role in thier child's lives.. now being a parent my self and a counciler for delinquent youths i couldn't agree more. we house up to aprox 225 youth at our facility and i could not tell you how many of them, when asked "what changes would you have made ?" say something relating to famly structure. I obviously hope my matter is cleared up but in a weird way I am glad to see it, because I feel that the majority of gun owners who are of sound mind and respect the rights afforded them are to often looked at for the ignorant actions of others. yeah i will probably have to go take a test and get a lawyer, but if thats the price i have to pay in order to have a system in place wich keeps guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them it is alright with me...

[DeltaII5]

Originally Posted by Pierce8468

Dont be too discouraged by the denial. I was denied to purchase a .38 about 3 weeks after bieng issued my LTCF, and after allready purchasing 7 other Guns. Because of a disorderly conduct arrest, that was there the entire time. I appealed the ruling and won my rights to purchase guns again, about a month later.

Why would you be denied for a minor misdemeanor?

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by DeltaII5

Why would you be denied for a minor misdemeanor?

It is my understanding the law is like having 2 wives... With my wife, farting is a misdemeanor, buying a new gun with out asking a year in advance is a major felony!

Then I go before friends who might encourage her to get a new gun.. And my wife changes, suddenly a fart is capital punishment and buying a gun is negotiable by plea bargaining her one too.

All farces apart, I think who reads what info is in your file make what happens to you happen or not happen. When you go thought the PICKS system. And here comes the 2 wives thing, the guy who puts your info in and might approve it, OR can also put it on the desk of some one else if he/she feels there might be reason to deny you, this person might then pass or deny it. So in theory, you might have been denied if not for the second person a few times, but winded passing by the skin of your teeth. Then one day, person #2 has a bad day and you are SOL.

When I went for my first gun, the sales clerk said come back tomorrow I’ll call you… Took 36 hours! All my guns since then have been a 10 minute affair. So its all relative to the person who your dealing with at every level your paperwork has to follow.
If you farted once too many times, you could be borderline and subject to some one’s mood that day.

[GunLawyer001]

Actually, PICS is staffed by fairly reasonable people, and it's more a system of rules than of cranky people. I disagree with some of their policies, particularly when it comes to their definition of "equivalent offenses" from other states, but they are pretty consistent

If your record shows criminal charges that might be prohibiting, the computer system looks for a disposition. If you were acquitted, then no problem. If there's no disposition in the record, then a PSP staffer looks for a disposition, usually by calling the county court. That takes time, and gets you delayed.

Sometimes the record is ambiguous, particularly where misdemeanors involving family members are shown; because of Lautenberg, if it's a misdemeanor crime of violence and the victim is a family member, you're prohibited. The dispositions reported to the PSP don't show that level of detail.

Older records pose more problems than more recent records, because recent convictions and mental health commitals result in mandatory notice to the PSP, but there was no reason to send all such notices 20 years ago.

People often seem to want to argue with the State Police PICS staff, that they didn't get a fair trial, that they didn't have a lawyer, that they never went to jail and they are really good people; none of that matters. If the record shows a prohibitor, you are prohibited. Hiring a firearm-friendly lawyer is the only remedy, because if your lawyer can change the record then you won't be prohibited anymore.