AD, or ND?

[str8shooter]

OK, there's been enough hoopla on this forum about which is which and I know the definitions, but I had something happen and I'm not quite sure if it was my fault, or the gun's fault.

I was shooting my Spreewerke P38 and had what I would call an AD, unless someone can point out to me what I may have done to cause the discharge. Here's the scenario:

I loaded the clip with 6 rounds ( j/k, just thought I'd see who's paying attention, magazine )
I put it into the P38 with the slide closed
I made sure the safety was in the safe position
I pulled back the slide to chamber the first round
I let go of the slide and the round fires.

Color me surprised!

All the safety rules were being observed so the round went down range and I had no worries about it, but it did serve as a good reminder that things don't always go as planned.

The case did not eject, so I pulled back the slide again
The case ejected and the next 5 rounds went without a hitch.

I reloaded the magazine and did a repeat performance, this time making absolutely sure my finger was no where near the trigger. I tried to closely observe what was happening, but all I saw was the hammer cock itself as the slide was pulled back, and again it fired by itself when slide was released with a round in the chamber.

I've only shot this gun once before and the only problem I had was once when I loaded 8 rounds. The magazine spring got stuck on something and wouldn't feed, but a poke with a screwdriver cleared the spring and I've only loaded 6 rounds ever since.

I went through several more mags and only had one more AD, but I did notice that sometimes the slide stayed open when the mag was empty, and sometimes it didn't.

I would call this an AD for certain, except that it's my first DAO semi-auto, and since it was a soldier bring back (90% original finish, no import marks, crisp nazi marking - ok, brag time over) I obviously don't have an instruction manual so I'm open to the suggestion that I'm doing something horribly wrong.

Do I need a smack in the head for misusing the P38, or a gunsmith to resolve a mechanical problem?

[P-11 shooter]

Unless your finger was on the trigger I think this is really a slamfire. The gun should not discharge when the slide is released. I think you need to have that gun looked at.

[RocketFoot]

Sounds like a rare AD to me...also sounds like you need a gunsmith to look at it, but be sure to warn him that it WILL slam fire! (or the smith may end up with an ND on his hands!!)

[Statkowski]

Let's see:

• Two discharges of unknown cause
• Magazine feeding problems
• Slide malfunctioning

That leaves you with two choices:

• Dispose of the firearm. I'll take care of that for you. Or,
• Take it to a gunsmith.

[normanvin]

Slam fire. It could be some debris or grease held the firing pin out.

It happened to me once when shooting an older browning auto loading shotgun. I was shooting clay birds. I aimed, pulled the trigger. One round went off then the second. Never happened again.

[P-11 shooter]

Originally Posted by normanvin

Slam fire. It could be some debris or grease held the firing pin out.

It happened to me once when shooting an older browning auto loading shotgun. I was shooting clay birds. I aimed, pulled the trigger. One round went off then the second. Never happened again.

People have gotten into alot of trouble for things like this. Even if it's not your fault.

As for the OP. Slamfires aren't good. You're going to want to get that fixed.

It's good to hear nobody was hurt. That's why these rules are so important. Sometimes you get surprised.

[TonyF]

It could have been a slam fire but I think what happened in this case is something between an AD and an ND.

You should not be in the habit of manually cycling the slide to chamber a round with the decocker in the "safe" (de-cock) position.

In the "de-cock" position, the hammer will "follow" the slide. Theoretically the pistol shouldn't discharge but conventional DA/SA auto-loaders have been known to do this when manually cycling the slide to chamber a round with the decocker on "safe".

[str8shooter]

Originally Posted by normanvin

Slam fire. It could be some debris or grease held the firing pin out.

It happened to me once when shooting an older browning auto loading shotgun. I was shooting clay birds. I aimed, pulled the trigger. One round went off then the second. Never happened again.

OK, I left this out because I wasn't sure it was pertinant, but now that you brought it up I think the gun may have also had a double fire. On the last AD I had, a case did eject, but when I pulled the trigger for the next shot all I got was a click. I pulled the slide and an empty case flew out and all was well again. My assumption was that the case that flew out with the AD must have been an unfired round, but I couldn't find it on the ground after emptying the mag, which this time I only loaded with 3 rounds. My son was with me and picked up an empty case he swears was the one that popped out when the AD went off, but agrees that he only heard one shot when AD happened. We searched for a long time, trying to account for every 9 mm shell I shot that day and managed to find all but three out of a box of fifty, but never found an unfired one.

Now I'm thinking I had a double fire like the one you just mentioned.

[str8shooter]

Originally Posted by TonyF

It could have been a slam fire but I think what happened in this case is something between an AD and an ND.

You should not be in the habit of manually cycling the slide to chamber a round with the decocker in the "safe" (de-cock) position.

In the "de-cock" position, the hammer will "follow" the slide. Theoretically the pistol shouldn't discharge but conventional DA/SA auto-loaders have been known to do this when manually cycling the slide to chamber a round with the decocker on "safe".

Sounds like a good possibility. Will I damage the gun, assuming it's already not damaged, if I put in some dummy rounds and tested your theory?

[str8shooter]

Originally Posted by Statkowski

...Dispose of the firearm. I'll take care of that for you.....

So kind of you to offer, but I'll give a gunsmith first crack at it if some of the other suggestions don't pan out.