AD, or ND?

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by str8shooter

Will I damage the gun, assuming it's already not damaged, if I put in some dummy rounds and tested your theory?

You'll easily see the hammer will "follow" but a live round discharging when doing this is a random and intermittent phenomenon.

[str8shooter]

Originally Posted by TonyF

You'll easily see the hammer will "follow" but a live round discharging when doing this is a random and intermittent phenomenon.

After the first AD and I watched closely, the hammer definitely did follow the slide when the second incident occured. I also noticed that the safety switch had moved to the fire position even though I made sure it was in the safe position before pulling the slide.

[gf45acp]

Gunsmith time. Good work on keeping the barrel pointed downrange.
I can not recall where I read this, but I recall an article about a P-38 that had a firing pin break on firing, and a part of the pin came out the back of the slide at the shooter.
Surplus guns need to be checked by a smith before being shot. Many have litterly been through a war or two. The conditions of manufacture, and the materials in wartime guns, espically late in the war for the loosing side, can be questionable. Add in (for the Germans) sabatoge by slave labor, and you could have a real problem.

[ErSwnn]

All of the knowledgable guesstimates of our esteemed colleagues on your malfunction, learned though they are, can't compensate for the journeyman eyes, hands and tools laid upon your machine. Take it to a smithy, an older one will know those guns better if you can find one.

[str8shooter]

I really appreciate all the helpful input from everyone, and as was recommended by all, this gun is off to the smithy before the next use. And another thanks to Rocket for the reminder to warn him why I'm bringing the gun in!

Using some verbage from TonyF's post in a google, I found a web site describing the design and purpose of the decocking/safety lever and it's looking like the problem may be in that system. According to one site, it's not that uncommon for Walthers to fail and cautions owners to lower the hammer slowly when applying the decocking lever. It didn't mention Spreewerke, but everything that happened that shouldn't have has one commonality, and that's the decocking/safety mechanism. I also found a thread on thehighroad.com mentioning some guys who rolled their own P38 from spare parts, and it went full auto on them. According to the poster it sounded like a single, very loud shot, so now I'm pretty convinced one of my ADs was actually a double fire like normanvin mentioned.

Originally Posted by gf45acp

...Good work on keeping the barrel pointed downrange...

Thanks, I appreciate that. We were at my camp when I was shooting, and although I sometimes feel like I go a little overboard when it's just me and the kids, I've drilled into their heads that even though it's our property and there are no other shooters around, when the guns come out, the camp becomes a shooting range and we always act accordingly. If I had to throw this gun away tomorrow (stand down Statkowski, j/k), I could handle the monetary loss because the incident was an invaluable lesson on why we can't let our guard down no matter what.

Originally Posted by gf45acp

I can not recall where I read this, but I recall an article about a P-38 that had a firing pin break on firing, and a part of the pin came out the back of the slide at the shooter.

It could have been the signal pin which sticks out above the hammer to show there's a round in the chamber. I could see how if one of those broke it would be like a dart being thrown at your eye.

Originally Posted by gf45acp

Surplus guns need to be checked by a smith before being shot. Many have litterly been through a war or two. The conditions of manufacture, and the materials in wartime guns, espically late in the war for the loosing side, can be questionable. Add in (for the Germans) sabatoge by slave labor, and you could have a real problem.

I actually bought it from a gunsmith, but shame on me for not breaking it down after getting it home and inspecting it like I've done with my other war pieces.

As a side note, to me a gun isn't a gun unless it shoots, but if this one proves too dangerous, I'd be satisfied pulling out the firing pin or doing whatever else is needed to make it unshootable and put it in a display case. It still might have some collector value, although I doubt I'd ever get rid of it unless I got something decent in trade (and frankly I don't know anyone who's going to trade a shooter for a disabled gun). My biggest concern is that I'd have to start looking for another P38 or P08 shooter all over again, and it can be an exhaustive process sifting through the junk some guys try to pass off as war relics.

[pex]

Ideally, a person would have a gunsmith review their gun as new and on a schedule...parts do wear.

One might say a person who didn't do that, upon certain failures, may tend to ND rather than AD.

This is an aside from all other things mentioned on the thread.

[ungawa]

Originally Posted by str8shooter

Re: AD, or ND?

OK, there's been enough hoopla on this forum about which is which and I know the definitions, but I had something happen and I'm not quite sure if it was my fault, or the gun's fault...

Don't worry yourself with these silly labels.

All the safety rules were being observed so the round went down range

That is the important part. You can and must obey every other safety rule. But if you point your weapon in an unsafe direction it may not be up to you. If you never do, the rest of the safety rules (God please forgive me) are backup measures.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by ungawa

Don't worry yourself with these silly labels.

I disagree.

I think it's important to reflect on the distinction between intentional, negligent and accidental discharges. They each have a significant bearing on our attitudes toward safety.

[ungawa]

Originally Posted by TonyF

I disagree.

I think it's important to reflect on the distinction between intentional, negligent and accidental discharges. They each have a significant bearing on our attitudes toward safety.

That is your right, and I respect your opinion in particular.

I don't think it's important. At least for an individual. If you are judging others, perhaps managerially (or even for less noble purposes), a tidy label with criteria is probably helpful.

[Twister]

Its an accidental discharge the first time. All subsequent unexpected firings from that particular gun before it is inspected/fixed would qualify as negligent discharges.

e.g. if you go to the range again with that pistol and it turns into a full auto, it is negligent because you did not fix the problem that presented itself.