kind of a research question..

[jud4420]

Now its my understanding that the laws are to be interpreted according to the common usage definitions, unless otherwise defined. In 6106 there are several places that use the word "business" and in several ways. They also do this with abode, and home.

But with business.. first in a1 it is "fixed place of business" - which is understood to be - a job at a regular non movable business (general)

a6 talks about "business firms"

a7 is "course of such business"

and a8 has "place of business" as well as "business" - outlined in blue below.

My question is.... have the courts ever put any consideration into accepting any of the broader definitions of business for A8 - such as 6,7, or 8 in these definitions?? I mean considering that many other definitions are used in this very section, how do we know that it was not meant to include - general business that one has at a particular location...?




busi·ness (bzns)
n.
1.
a. The occupation, work, or trade in which a person is engaged: the wholesale food business.
b. A specific occupation or pursuit: the best designer in the business.
2. Commercial, industrial, or professional dealings: new systems now being used in business.
3. A commercial enterprise or establishment: bought his uncle's business.
4. Volume or amount of commercial trade: Business had fallen off.
5. Commercial dealings; patronage: took her business to a trustworthy salesperson.
6.
a. One's rightful or proper concern or interest: "The business of America is business" Calvin Coolidge.
b. Something involving one personally: It's none of my business.
7. Serious work or endeavor: got right down to business.
8. An affair or matter: "We will proceed no further in this business" Shakespeare.

^^^^^www.thefreedictionary.com/business



§6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

(a) Offense defined.*

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

******edit*******

(6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.

(7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.

(8) Any person while carrying a firearm unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section....




It would change alot of things....

[Steve in PA]

No, your fixed place of business is just that, a fixed location.

It would only lead to confusion. Let's say, computer repairman, plumber, electrician, etc. without a LTC would say every house he goes to is his "business location" and therefore doesn't need a LTC.

[jud4420]

well i agree with you there about the "fixed place of business". But there are other parts of the statute that site other kinds of business. Thats more so what i was referring to.

a place of business... (notice i didnt say fixed) could be any place you go where you have some type of business to conduct. That doesnt necessarily mean that it has to be work related. Just some place you have a legitimate place being to handle an affair. Weather it be grocery shopping, or dropping the kids at the park, or any other business you have to conduct.

Now i know this is not how it as looked at as defined in the code, im just wondering if the argument has ever been made?

We can OC in pa but to get to where your going to OC (in a car) you need a permit, (or at least a permit holder in the vehicle). Its my understanding that the lawful action of OC is NOT an exception to carrying in a vehicle even if the firearm is unloaded, secured and ammo separated.

This just seems like a misinterpretation of the law or more so the word business. It doesnt make sense that you can OC on foot, but not be aloud to transport your firearm to a location you OC on foot.

Thoughts?

[jud4420]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

No, your fixed place of business is just that, a fixed location.

It would only lead to confusion. Let's say, computer repairman, plumber, electrician, etc. without a LTC would say every house he goes to is his "business location" and therefore doesn't need a LTC.

and to the second part of your reply, Its clear that the law prevents a plumber or electrician or any of the such to CC in these "temporary" places of business without a LTCF, they ARE however aloud by law to OC. - They are not however aloud to transport their firearm to that location... (even unloaded) and thats where I think there needs to be some review of the definition of business.

I dont see a problem carrying an unloaded and secured firearm to any location in which you plan to lawfully carry said firearm. - thats pretty much the direction of this whole post.

[marinakorp]

What if you "fixed place of business" is a hot dog (or whatever) vendor cart?

Or even a "towable" cart... would the place of business cover you therer?

what if you DRIVE a food service truck to job sites? Is that your place of business?

[jud4420]

non of those are a "fixed place of buisness" and therefore you cannot CC or transport there without a LTCF.

But if the definition of business as applied in 6106a8 were extended to include going to conduct any general business... than you would at least be able to carry a unloaded firearm to and from places where you OC.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by jud4420

and to the second part of your reply, Its clear that the law prevents a plumber or electrician or any of the such to CC in these "temporary" places of business without a LTCF, they ARE however aloud by law to OC. - They are not however aloud to transport their firearm to that location... (even unloaded) and thats where I think there needs to be some review of the definition of business.

I dont see a problem carrying an unloaded and secured firearm to any location in which you plan to lawfully carry said firearm. - thats pretty much the direction of this whole post.

State law has a problem with it unless you have a LTCF. If the plumber has to make a house call, that house call location isn't his/her fixed place of business. You're only exempt from needing a LTCF for going to/from home, work, shooting range, gunsmith/shop, hunting, fishing, trapping, dog training, etc. And since the house call location isn't his/her place of abode to have exemption there either for concealed carry. Then he/she would doubtfully be allowed in most houses open carrying. He/she would have to leave his firearm at his office for it to be legal - unless he had a LTCF.

With as easy as it is to get a LTCF in PA - there is no excuse not to have one. Just get the license, carrying to/from anywhere, and leave it in the vehicle when you make the house call. Its that simple.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by marinakorp

What if you "fixed place of business" is a hot dog (or whatever) vendor cart?

Or even a "towable" cart... would the place of business cover you therer?

what if you DRIVE a food service truck to job sites? Is that your place of business?

Fixed as in: a building, unmovable, stationary.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fixed


fixed Listen to the pronunciation of fixed
Pronunciation:
\ˈfikst\
Function:
adjective
Date:
14th century

1 a: securely placed or fastened : stationary b (1): nonvolatile (2): formed into a chemical compound c (1): not subject to change or fluctuation <a fixed income> (2): firmly set in the mind <a fixed idea> (3): having a final or crystallized form or character (4): recurring on the same date from year to year <fixed holidays> d: immobile, concentrated <a fixed stare>2: supplied with something (as money) needed <comfortably fixed>

[Longshot]

Originally Posted by knight0334

State law has a problem with it unless you have a LTCF. If the plumber has to make a house call, that house call location isn't his/her fixed place of business. You're only exempt from needing a LTCF for going to/from home, work, shooting range, gunsmith/shop, hunting, fishing, trapping, dog training, etc. And since the house call location isn't his/her place of abode to have exemption there either for concealed carry. Then he/she would doubtfully be allowed in most houses open carrying. He/she would have to leave his firearm at his office for it to be legal - unless he had a LTCF.

With as easy as it is to get a LTCF in PA - there is no excuse not to have one. Just get the license, carrying to/from anywhere, and leave it in the vehicle when you make the house call. Its that simple.

Just wanted to clarify the bold section, (as it is my understanding)we are not exempt from needing a LTCF for transporting a Loaded firearm in the instances you stated, we are exempt under those circumstances if you are transporting an unloaded firearm with ammunition in a separate compartment. as long as we assume we are legally able to own/possess said firearms.

Also, I assume we are talking about handguns.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by Longshot

Just wanted to clarify the bold section, (as it is my understanding)we are not exempt from needing a LTCF for transporting a Loaded firearm in the instances you stated, we are exempt under those circumstances if you are transporting an unloaded firearm with ammunition in a separate compartment. as long as we assume we are legally able to own/possess said firearms.

Also, I assume we are talking about handguns.

yeah... thanks. lol


The to/from: home, work and gunsmith requires the firearm to be unloaded.

The sporting activities doesn't make such requirement in the law.

Yeah, handguns. rifles and shotguns are not "firearms" in PA in reqards to carrying(they are in regards to prohibited folks). And absolutely no one except LEO's, military, and security are allowed to have loaded rifles/shotguns in a vehicle.