Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

[Elmar]

http://www.mpoetc.state.pa.us/mpotrs...=1133&q=440289

Minimum 50 rounds ten percent must be at 25 feet or greater? I couldn't believe thats it.

[Steve in PA]

That is the minimum course of fire for qualification, not "training". While some depts use this as their entire "firearms qualification", if they have a decent firearms instructor there will be more.

I run a three-day qualification. My "qualification" COF is not that basic and I try to change it from year to year. There is case law which clearly states, "qualification (alone) is NOT firearms training".

I run a qualification COF for handgun, rifle and shotgun. I also run tactical/stress COF's for each. Drills which include moving, shooting from cover, weak hand, etc. I have guys from neighboring depts want to come and shoot when I qualify my dept, because they do not get the chance to do this with their own dept.

[Elmar]

I would really hope most places go beyond this but this as a minimum is very worrisome.

[Steve in PA]

Blame it on the chief or the powers that be who have a say about what the dept does. A neighboring dept just had two guys qualify as firearms instructors. One of the first things they mentioned was "holy cow........there is a lot of liability!"

Um, no sh!t sherlock!. Their chief refused to let them do anything beyond shooting a qualification course for years. Even now, he is dragging his heels about letting them try and do things beyond qualification.

I told them to write a letter, detailing what they want to do for their firearms training. Let the chief or council deny certain parts of it, and keep a copy. Then when the SHTF and their dept is investigated for an OIS, anything lacking in training will fall squarely on the head and shoulders of the chief and mayor.

[Pa. Patriot]

Good post, Steve.
True that qual is not training.

Sad that the reality is that many dept's do no real training. By going to ONE handgun tactics class you have gained more training than many dept's LEO's.

[Brown-Bear]

Originally Posted by Elmar

http://www.mpoetc.state.pa.us/mpotrs...=1133&q=440289

Minimum 50 rounds ten percent must be at 25 feet or greater? I couldn't believe thats it.

Actually it says 25 yards, not feet. I don't know how much actual training you have recieved but 25yds (75 feet) is a long shot with a handgun. The link shows what the minimum requirement is for QUALIFICATION, which is NOT the same as continued training. In boot camp we had to score a minimum very similar to the one you posted, before we were recieved any further training. No need to send someone to a tactical pistol course if they can't even shoot straight.

Dave

[jahwarrior72]

i'm betting that many here could qualify by tenfold.

[Boomer]

.
Which individuals on this list should receive a letter requesting that the UFA should be a part of officer training... ?

http://www.mpoetc.state.pa.us/mpotrs...ges/spacer.gif

Perhaps include a copy of this.. http://paopencarry.org/PennsylvaniaGunRights.pdf


.

[Steve in PA]

Originally Posted by jahwarrior72

i'm betting that many here could qualify by tenfold.

"Qualification" is nothing more than proving you can get a passing grade, nothing more. As I said, qualification is NOT training. Like boot camp, its proving you can do "X" number of pullups, situps, etc.

I do agree that most depts do not do any type of training other than going to the range, putting 50-60 holes in a target and then say, see you next year. I used to "qualify" officers from a few neighboring depts who never received any firearms training. On the form I use, in big bold letters would be "QUALIFICATION ONLY! NO FIREARMS TRAINING RECEIVED". I did this for a few years, then decided, screw 'em. If they don't want to train their officers, I'm not going to perpetuate the problem. I think they finally sent an officer to F/I school, but I have not seen their program yet.

[DaveM55]

We qualified using 60 rounds I think. Used both hands together and individually, moved in all directions, and shot between 25 yards and 7 feet.

The part being left out of these discussions is qual is timed. The time puts a little extra stress on you.

Very few people could pass our Qual course of fire without formal training. It's very easy to lose points. Like losing 5 points for dropping a magazine during a mag save reload (tactical reload).

In training we went through about 900 rounds each. We had a night shoot, shot from our backs, stomachs, sides, multiple threats, did one hand drills simulating an injury. Our instructors don't teach the qualification course solely in the training.

We have an additional night shoot training exercise next month, I can't wait.