Denied Purchase!!??? System Glitch?

[Robert Kayland]

Anyone aware of recent system glitches in PCIS?

After attempting to buy a pistol at a well-known outfitter in Hamburg, PA, I was told that the immediate "pass" didn't come through and I'd have to wait 15 days.

A week later I got a denied letter and the paperwork for an appeal (which I filled out immediately and sent to the State Police in Harrisburg).

But I'm truly perplexed now... I've never been charged with a crime, honorable discharge from the Army back in 1976, married with children for the past 22 years, same residence for the past 20 years, same job for the past 20 years, clean driving record, no debt, etc., etc., etc. I'm about as boring a citizen as you could find!

I've also bought several pistols in the past, although that was back in the 1970's from a local dealer, before the computer proliferation we have now, and haven't made any gun purchases in over 25 years.

Is it possible that system backlog caused a no response within that given time and the denial was simply an automatic thing that had nothing to do with any actual check?

I also double-checked all my credit reports and nobody has been using my name (it's a very long and unusual last name, and there's only one other person in the US with it who is 81 and lives in Seattle).

What's going on here?

By the way, I'm also in the process of getting my LTCF, and wondering if there's going to be the same sort of thing... I read on another thread that someone mentioned their LTCF passed, but their attempt to buy a gun was denied... is this proof that it's merely some glitch in the computer system that was a non-response for the outfitter's system?

Another by the way... the gun was a short-barreled .38 special, and from the stats I'm reading on the web, this seems to be the type of pistol that is often targeted on denials for transfer/purchase. Does the initial PCIS check mention the type of gun, and would that be a possible reason for the State Police to want an appeal?

I'm concerned that, from all the stats I've found on the web, that only a few percentage points of applications for purchase/transfer get denied... and of those, about 1/3 pass on appeal. But I couldn't find those stats specifically for PA, I think it was for several other states and/or at the national level.

[Philbert]

This has been happening to others recently. Possibly coincidence, but the last time I saw it reported here was also for a .38 snubby. Details here.

[Warners Surplus]

Fill out the challenge form and send it in.

Sounds to me like the operator that did your background found NOTHING on you but may have found someone with a close last name or DLN and denied you based on caution. I would bet that you send in the denial challenge form and within a few days you will have the reversal letter. Situations like yours are not that ucommon.

There is a section of the PSP sight that shows the number of denial revrsals for any given year, I'll see if i can find it quick.

PICS has no way of knowing WHAT gun you are buying so the snubbie is a moot point. They don't know what gun you bought or are triing to buy until the dealer files his record of sale paperwork.

ETA link
http://www.psp.state.pa.us/psp/lib/p...l_06172008.pdf

7420 denials in 2007
4017 challenged
1183 issued final denials
1832 denials were reversed
12 cases pending final disposition

so about 45% of the challenged denials were reversed

Rich W.

[Robert Kayland]

Wow, nice job on finding those stats... I noticed the number of appeals doesn't jibe with the results as far as final denial and reversals, but it's good to know that the percentage of reversals is that high.

I would REALLY love to know why the initial denial occurred, but I guess that's not going to happen... you'd think they would at least put SOME reason on the appeal papers, because how do you know what it is you're trying to appeal?

I am hoping it's merely because the system was either down or slow (still no excuse, given the inexpensive computer hardware and ISP speeds available nowadays, but at least that's a harmless explanation).

What I dread is finding out, through some mistake by a data-entry operator or automated update system, that there's erroneous information under my name, and all the rigamarole and bureaucracy I might have to go through to straighten things out.

[Robert Kayland]

Another thing I just remembered is, due to paranoia about identify theft in the past few years, I don't give my SSN unless I have to.

The form for both gun purchase and LTCF says it's optional, so I didn't include it.

I'm thinking now that maybe I should just include it from the start to avoid future hassles.

[normanvin]

Originally Posted by Robert Kayland

Another thing I just remembered is, due to paranoia about identify theft in the past few years, I don't give my SSN unless I have to.

The form for both gun purchase and LTCF says it's optional, so I didn't include it.

I'm thinking now that maybe I should just include it from the start to avoid future hassles.

That could make a difference. I haven't picked anything up in the last few months. I have always given the ssn, and never had an issue.

[Robert Kayland]

Just to be sure, I did put my SSN on the appeal papers.

Well, assuming I won't know the final result for several weeks, I'll post the outcome here when it's all settled.

That way, in the future, maybe somebody else who goes through the same thing won't be worried about the "what-ifs".

[normanvin]

Now the wait begins. Good luck with the appeal.

[Brown-Bear]

Wow that kinda sucks, good luck with the denial challenge. Also the LTCF app should be okay. I don't think they have anything to do with one another. I have a friend who was denied a purchase but given an LTCF.

Dave

[knight0334]

That kind of crap happens from time to time for people with virgin white clean backgrounds.

Believe it or not, the PSP is pretty decent about reversals. I have some smudged history, but is however not prohibitive. An indepth explanation gave clear for a reversal in my situation - if you are clean of smudges, your reversal should be just as easily issued.

Just be warned, delays or calls sent to operator will probably be in your future from here on out. All my PICS calls go to operator, which then dealer has to provide DL#, eye color, weight, height, race, etc..