Are contrary views of Open Carry Verbooten on PAFOA

[PisnNapalm]

Personally, I get tired of the bickering it causes too. If there is truly something new then I'll read it, but when it's more of the same.... ehh. It's boring.

I've attending OC events, but I will usually CC. It's my preference. I will not tell anyone they can't OC if it's their preference to do so. If there's "legal consequences" down the road then so be it. We'll deal with it then. Until that time no one should feel compelled to set aside their rights for other people's confort.

Here I go blabbering on about it.... sheesh... Time to watch some Olympics.

[pex]

I hope we (whomever it is that does it) keep OCing and then the Legislature makes it illegal, and then you guys quit fucking crying and TAKE BACK YOUR GOVERNMENT WITH GUNS.

That way, it's a win-win. You either get to OC, or abolish your government and make one that lets you OC.

[andrewjs18]

I am for both, but doesn't people who OC make others more aware of the laws and to help correct issues with what people interpret what the 'law' is with guns??

To me, I think that OC is for the better, not the worse...

I think it brings up a lot more LEO encounters than CC, but by doing so it also makes people more aware about gun laws....citizens in the community, LEO and other officials, for example.

[PisnNapalm]

Here we go again....

[PropCop]

I can OC or CC, obviously.

Personal opinion, I am less worried with the citizens that OC. CC'S I don't see, therefore no active response unless they tell me (not required), and usually present an LTCF. I don't ask unless they are under arrest for some other offense (usually BUI).

The firearm isn't the issue - the person with it might be. Since I wasn't issued ESP, everyone has to be considered innocent until they prove by their demeanor otherwise ( I know, instinct doesn't count, but in some cases, it does.)

The people we encounter are recreating, not generally engaged in a criminal activity. Be nice and everybody wins, even if a citation is issued. People make mistakes, and sometimes a warning has a bigger impact than a citation.

[JCWohlschlag]

One could easily ask, regarding the topic that started all this, “Is searching the forum for existing material verbooten?” I mean, wanting to express your point of view (and supporting reasons tend to help) is fine and is what the forum is for. Finding out if there is already a debate going on is what the search function is for.

I am shocked by someone who actively resists using the search function, claiming that people who point out that many threads already exist are rude, and they should hand-hold the person to the appropriate thread instead. That’s bullcrap. How f——king hard is it to put in “Why OC” into the search bar which is at the top of any page and realize that there are many threads that already exist. I mean, the second result you get is yet another locked topic called “Why OC” where the mods had to hand-hold yet another person and lead them to appropriate topics.

Maybe — just maybe — one of those existing threads already has the answer to your concerns. Maybe someone already posted additional reasons that support your claim. Why should we all be forced to rehash the same exact garbage just in a different order and time in order to satisfy one person?

Want to know how I really feel about the subject? I feel that many of the people who post a new damned thread to hash out an old damned argument do so simply because they don’t like how the old argument panned out for their side. It’s kind of like how when you don’t like mommy’s answer, you go ask daddy instead.

You say that you are shocked that people get upset that a controversial topic is brought up yet again. Well, I am shocked that I might have to type in my opinion and reasoning yet again. Precisely how many times am I expected to do this? We have 10,000 freakin’ members here; should I fire off 9,999 PMs so that everyone personally receives my input on the matter, then continue to update every new member who joins? Of course not. So, why should I be expected to type in my same ol’ crap yet again for someone too lazy to search for my last post on the matter?

This isn’t just an open carry versus concealed carry problem. This happens with any subject that frequently gets asked on the forum, such as the LTCF/CCW/CWP/CCP naming, and any news article that is of importance, such as DC versus Heller or the Maryland Mayor getting no-knocked and two dogs shot why SWAT. Some multiple/duplicate threads aren’t so bad because you can just pop the answer and be done with it, like my former example. However, when the thread involves actual discussion or opinions and reasoning, multiple or duplicate threads make an effective discussion practically impossible.

ETA: The focal point of the problem isn’t that the person brought up controversial views. The problem is that they were brought up with a complete lack of internet courtesy for anyone, neither the group that agrees with him nor the group that opposes. To me, that is akin to the bastards that hit the “Reply to All” button in their email or have forwarded attachments 20 levels deep so I have to click 40 f——king times to see the email of interest.

[Philbert]

Originally Posted by JCWohlschlag

The focal point of the problem isn’t that the person brought up controversial views. The problem is that they were brought up with a complete lack of internet courtesy for anyone, neither the group that agrees with him nor the group that opposes. To me, that is akin to the bastards that hit the “Reply to All” button in their email or have forwarded attachments 20 levels deep so I have to click 40 f——king times to see the email of interest.

Amen. Not only that, but the tone of the post was flamebait, talking about OCers and "their rights" (in quotes in the original) as though OC was some fictional legal right, and suggesting that OC is not desirable because some people's appearance doesn't appeal to public prejudices. Made me wonder whether he works at Boscovs.

[gf45acp]

Everyone is entitled to their own point of view. The thing that wories me about these type of threads are that if we, as gun owners, can not stick together, then we have already lost. Something about "if we do not hang together we shall surely hang seperately".

[PennsyPlinker]

Originally Posted by CZ40P

Quite frankly gentlemen, I am shocked! I read with great interest a thread started in the Concealed/Open Carry forum were a new member stated what I thought was a valid concern about open carry run-ins causing a backlash effect with the State Legislature.

It's not the topic, it's the attitude. There are a lot of people who do not like OC. That is fine. It is when they come on the board here to tell the rest of us that because they do not like it, we should not do it. It is really that simple. It amounts to a bunch of people who wear red shirts only coming on the board to tell those of us who wear green shirts that we are wrong, and we need to wear red shirts only, just like them.

Difference of opinion is one thing. Backing that opinion up with real facts is another thing. And trying to force an opinion on someone else is yet a third thing. If you read any OC advocate's posts, you will see a person who says it is your choice, make sure you are informed about that choice, and the surrounding legalities. No one in the OC camp is trying to force people to OC. But then someone in the CC camp comes along, and starts out sounding very reasonable and calm, and the next thing you know, we are being demonized for letting our guns show.

People in the OC group are passionate about carrying and about our rights, and the constant drumbeat from other gun owners of how we are wrong really gets to be tiresome. If the anti OC people would be content with expressing an opinion, that would be fine, but they are no better than the Brady Bunch when it comes to their "reasonable restrictions". Because that is exactly what it is - a "reasonable restriction" that really isn't reasonable at all. It just satisfies the desire of someone who wants to impose their will on someone else, regardless of the evidence at hand.

[762xIan]

Look I am not looking to get into a point/ counterpoint debate with the Open Carry Rangers. I am just saying you fellas are in the minority. You don't speak for me, you don't speak for a lot of folks on this forum. You don't speak for MOST of Pennsylvania! I am ashamed at the way Mr Kayland was bullied and shutdown.

I am used to being in the minority, I am a gun owner who supports the right to own Any Damn Type Of Gun you would want to. Look at how many folks look at semi-auto's with Hi-cap mags and say what do you need that for? It ain't about need. Lots or Fudds out there with this attitude.

I support all gunowners rights...not just the ones I like.

As far as negative effects of OC? Well we haven't had a rash of folks legally OC'ing breaking the law that would necessitate new legislation, have we? Unless you are talking about scaring "sheeple" with the god awful sight of someone legally carrying. I think it is a good thing, and good to get the word out there that it is legal, one tool is the great pamphlet we have here to help spread the word and dispel myths.

I don't own any Full Auto weapons either, but I always inject the truth in a converstation when an uninformed person make a ridiculous comment about "machine guns". Same thing with suppresors (silencers) or short barrels, don't own any, but support them.

It is about doing something that is legal, and spreading information to law enforcement and the public at large that it is legal. Nothing more.

If you want to OC go ahead, you want to CC, get a LTCF and go ahead, I could care less....but don't tell me I should not exercise my rights just because I am in the minority. I have been a life NRA member for 15 years...and fighting the fight for a quite a while with hard cold cash donations, lots of letter writing, and going to rallies etc...If you don't want to be a part of the solution and stick together for all of our rights...my opinion is you are part of the problem.

This is the kind of attitude from fellow gun owners that pisses me off the most.