Serious what if question.

[chrischoi]

I don't want to be criticized for asking this. I heard a couple things and came up with this. I'm not the type to go out looking for trouble. It's just a scenario... Thanks for your answers.

Part 1.
You are just outside with some friends minding your own business.
Then a guy comes up and is demanding something while pointing a fire arm at one of your friend's head.

You are behind your friend.

If you chose to put down the guy after several warnings continue to Part 2.
How many warnings would you have given him?



Part 2.
You find out this guy is a minor and the fire arm was not even loaded. Does that still count as self defense?
It doesn't matter where the kid got the fire arm. Let's just say this scenario happened.

[Carnes]

Originally Posted by chrischoi

I don't want to be criticized for asking this. I heard a couple things and came up with this. I'm not the type to go out looking for trouble. It's just a scenario... Thanks for your answers.

Part 1.
You are just outside with some friends minding your own business.
Then a guy comes up and is demanding something while pointing a fire arm at one of your friend's head.

You are behind your friend.

If you chose to put down the guy after several warnings continue to Part 2.
How many warnings would you have given him?



Part 2.
You find out this guy is a minor and the fire arm was not even loaded. Does that still count as self defense?
It doesn't matter where the kid got the fire arm. Let's just say this scenario happened.

There are some problems with the scenario, but I suspect the focus of your question is on the 'warning' part, so I will just address that.

The easy 'commonsense' way to think about when you can and cannot shoot is, "Would I rather spend 20 years in jail and give up all my cash than allow whatever is happening to continue?"

If the answer is yes, the only warning you need give is the sound of the pistol's firing pin striking the bullets primer.

Criminally, the fact that it was a teen with an unloaded pistol will not make much difference. In the civil suit, it may prove a bit more problematic. Irregardless, if you answered the 'commonsense' question honestly you will be able to live with whatever the consequences happen to be.

[GunLawyer001]

First, you can't out-draw someone who is already pointing his gun at you. Maybe you can draw your gun while he's busy killing your friend, maybe you can't.

Second, NEVER give a warning to someone who is pointing a gun at you or another, their logical choice would be to kill you instead of surrendering and going to jail. (I heard an odd corollary to this, I think it came from WW II escaping prisoners: Running people will run faster if you shoot at them or tell them to stop, but people who are standing still will surrender. Some psychological thing.) Cops don't warn suspects to stop pointing their guns at them, they shoot the suspects dead if they point guns at cops.

Third, an unloaded or replica gun is just as capable of creating a reasonable belief that you're about to die as a real gun. The jury's inquiry would be, "would a reasonable person in your situation have believed that killing the perp was the best way to save the life of your friend?" (BTW, there's at least one exception to the "reasonable belief" standard, which applies to you rescuing someone from others. If you see some guy screaming that he's being kidnapped by 2 armed guys with a van, so you shoot the 2 guys, and they turn out to be cops making an arrest, then you're screwed. It's a strict liability standard, your reasonable mistake is not an excuse.)

[Asmodeus6]

My decision would be based more on the fact of - will this kid go away if he gets what he's demanding without shooting my friend or me? Short of my car keys, or a firearm, I'd hand it over if he looked spooked enough to just bail with a cheap score.

How much do I like this friend... is he a GOOD friend, or just an association... or a friend of a friend... (just kidding... well 90%)

Are their witnesses? AKA people who see this punk put a gun in someone's face besides me?

In all honestly, loaded or not. You put a gun to somone's head - I have to assume its loaded. I also have to assume that if you are stupid enough to do this in broad daylight outside - you are also stupid enough to pull the trigger with little provocation.

My only concern which relates back to my initial thought of just handing over some cash, a watch - whatever he wanted. Is he already has the drop, drawn, aimed, close range. Not looking good for my buddy if I make a sloppy move for a gun and get him shot in the head.

I would not issue ANY warning for that very reason. The demands are met for me to shoot him already. I wouldn't announce I was going to do so at close range and chance a friend getting shot. I'd also be concerned about getting a shot in that will drop him before he pulls the trigger. As well as drawing and having a close range gun pointing standoff "threatening to shoot" match.

I have about one friend if I was in that situation I think it would go ok. I'd draw, nudge him and he'd get a hand on the gun. He's fast, trained, and really good at close range disarming. And I know he would lock up the gun arm and get clear for me to drill the guy in the chest. Anyone else, I'd be really worried about my actions provoking my friends death.

As far as it not being loaded, that would be something the police would tell me afterwards.

[LastManOut]

The one question about the situation you describe is are you willing to, 1# die 2# be in a wheelchair or 3# jail for "your friend", or any other innocent by-stander? Are you 100% sure "your friend" be willing to take care of your family if you can't because you acted in his defense?

Did he have the opportunity to train and arm himself as you did, but chose not to? If so, then I guess it sucks to be him.

[gnbrotz]

1. Zero
2. I sure hope so

[4XLT]

1.. no warnings, shoot and make sure your aim is on or your friend will be dead, maybe you too

2... as gunlawyer pointed out, it doesnt matter if its real or not... if you have fear for your life, shoot

[duane1]

If you fear for your life or another persons life. shoot! Remember the old saying
"It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"

[Brown-Bear]

Part 1. No warnings

Part 2. The replica matters not. How are you supposed to know the age of the atacker and whether or not the gun is real or loaded or not.

Now in a civil suit you may need to pray for a sympathetic jury.

Dave

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by chrischoi

I don't want to be criticized for asking this. I heard a couple things and came up with this. I'm not the type to go out looking for trouble. It's just a scenario... Thanks for your answers.

Part 1.
You are just outside with some friends minding your own business.
Then a guy comes up and is demanding something while pointing a fire arm at one of your friend's head.

You are behind your friend.

If you chose to put down the guy after several warnings continue to Part 2.
How many warnings would you have given him?

None. But watch your trajectory.

Part 2.
You find out this guy is a minor and the fire arm was not even loaded. Does that still count as self defense?

Yes.