Serious what if question.

[CrazyWhiteGuy]

Originally Posted by chrischoi

Part 1.
You are just outside with some friends minding your own business.
Then a guy comes up and is demanding something while pointing a fire arm at one of your friend's head.

You are behind your friend.

If you chose to put down the guy after several warnings continue to Part 2.
How many warnings would you have given him?

First of all I wouldn't allow anyone I didn't know to get that close to me or my friends.

But to answer the question, no warnings.

Originally Posted by chrischoi

Part 2.
You find out this guy is a minor and the fire arm was not even loaded. Does that still count as self defense?
It doesn't matter where the kid got the fire arm. Let's just say this scenario happened.

1. Treat every gun as a real and loaded gun.
2. If the guy is old enough to know how to demand something from me while pointing a gun at myself or a friend, they are old enough to know the possible consequences of that action.

[38SnubFan]

No warnings. Dumba** is getting shot.

In such a scenario, the actor should've put some rounds in it. Maybe then he would've had a chance against me.

Sorry he brought an "expensive paperweight" to a gunfight!

-38SnubFan

[FUNDAMENTALS]

I believe it is incumbent upon any person carrying, wether concealed or open
carry, to review 18 Pa. C.S.A., CHAPTER 5, GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF
JUSTIFICATION, Section's:
505: Use of force in self protection.
506: Use of force for the protection of other persons.
Understand sub section a: of 505, and I quote: "The use of force upon or
toward another person is JUSTIFIABLE when the actor believes that such
force is IMMEDIATLEY NECESSARY for the purpose of protecting himself
against the use of UNLAWFUL FORCE by such other person on the PRESENT
OCCASION".

[Statkowski]

As my oldest son pointed out after he had been hunting guerillas in either The Philippines or Indonesia, "A 14-year-old with an AK-47 will kill you just as dead as a 21-year-old."

[General Geoff]

First, you can't out-draw someone who is already pointing his gun at you. Maybe you can draw your gun while he's busy killing your friend, maybe you can't.

Not likely, but you can, with enough training. Average human reaction time is 0.4 seconds, then add in another 0.2 for actually pulling the trigger. A very good shooter could possibly draw from concealment and drop him before he pulls the trigger, though not likely if the perp is truly focused on what he's doing. I certainly wouldn't try it unless the perp was obviously distracted.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by General Geoff

Not likely, but you can, with enough training. Average human reaction time is 0.4 seconds, then add in another 0.2 for actually pulling the trigger. A very good shooter could possibly draw from concealment and drop him before he pulls the trigger, though not likely if the perp is truly focused on what he's doing. I certainly wouldn't try it unless the perp was obviously distracted.

This is where it pays to have some distracting comments prepared, like "Go on, Ed, give him the cash you have in your left sock" or "Five-O, Five -O!" or "Look at those tits on her!" (that one doesn't work on gay muggers, so use your best judgment.)

Watch "The Outlaw Josie Wales" for a good hypothetical, where the kid is "delirious" on the ground while Josie has 2 guns pointed at him; that was just the right time for the kid to say "don't worry, Pa, I didn't tell them about the gold..."

[PapaJazz26]

Chris, you wouldn't be using this post as a way to tell me you are not coming to work tomorrow....would you???

[Ten*K]

as far as number 2, the law doesn't distinguish between real vs. replica, or loaded vs. unloaded in the commission of a crime. go point an airsoft pistol at an LEO and see what happens (EXAMPLE ONLY... DO NOT DO THIS)

unfortunately, it's not a matter of legality, it's a matter of who has the better lawyer.

[Mtbkski]

I would like to recommend that you take the time to read this book. IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME by Massad F. Ayoob. It will help you with a lot of question that you may have when you first start to carry. It will bring up some points that you have never thought of before. (Like the Civil Suit that is bound to follow.) It will make you think before you get into a bad situation.(are you doing this cause you have a firearm on? Would you do this if you didn't have a firearm on you?) It will make you seriously think about if your carrying a handgun is the right thing for you or not (heck, 20 years ago, I quit carrying a handgun for a while after reading this book. It made me realize I wasn't carrying for the right reasons.) It is excellent reading.

http://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extrem...7079365&sr=8-1

[38SnubFan]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

I would like to recommend that you take the time to read this book. IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME by Massad F. Ayoob. It will help you with a lot of question that you may have when you first start to carry. It will bring up some points that you have never thought of before. (Like the Civil Suit that is bound to follow.) It will make you think before you get into a bad situation.(are you doing this cause you have a firearm on? Would you do this if you didn't have a firearm on you?) It will make you seriously think about if your carrying a handgun is the right thing for you or not (heck, 20 years ago, I quit carrying a handgun for a while after reading this book. It made me realize I wasn't carrying for the right reasons.) It is excellent reading.

http://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extrem...7079365&sr=8-1

I share your sentiment on "carrying for the right reasons"; however, I'll have to disagree with you on taking anything Ayoob writes too seriously. As much as I respect him for his public service, I find that on many occasions he's being paid to tell the general public what those paying him want the general public to hear. I used to read his articles and stories and listen to his speeches about being sued and how you had better have the best attorney possible in court or you'll go to jail or lose everything you own to a defensive shooting.

After all that reading, I wonder if he's not being paid by attorneys to make some of the statements he makes and unnecessarily striking unwarranted fear into those who carry for self-defense. I did some of my own research into people who have shot in self-defense. The majority of those instances resulted in the DA clearing the defensive shooter rather quickly with no charges filed (a.k.a. "clean/good shoot").

Not saying that the things Ayoob points out aren't true or couldn't happen, because anything can happen. I'm just saying it's not typically as bad as what he makes it out to be.

Just my opinion (and we all know what they're like),
38SnubFan