Do you load your mags to full capacity?

[andrewjs18]

my XD holds 12 in the mag, but I usually load 11; 12 makes the mag release button tight as all hell when dropping the mag...dunno why...maybe it's how it's supposed to be and I never realized it before?!?!?!

[Twister]

Originally Posted by andrewjs18

my XD holds 12 in the mag, but I usually load 11; 12 makes the mag release button tight as all hell when dropping the mag...dunno why...maybe it's how it's supposed to be and I never realized it before?!?!?!

Thats just the gun telling you it wants to be fired

This is before or after the top round is chambered?

[Bersa45]

17 + 1 always full. It just feels right.............

[BenningBoy]

I strip the floorplate, pull out the spring, and fire upside down. Gravity never wears out.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by TonyF

M16 magazines should be downloaded by two rounds.

20's - 2 = 18

30's - 2 = 28

The reason is that with magazines loaded to capacity there isn't enough space in the mag body to seat the magazine on a closed bolt due to the increased compression from the underside of the BCG impinging on the top round in the magazine.

The reason for downloading by two rounds is so that "crossover" remains consistent.

I don't doubt "some of you" can seat "some of your magazines" loaded to capacity on a closed bolt. That is a combination of your rifle's tolerance stack wedded to a fatigued magazine spring.

Don't bother arguing with me about it because I'm not going to play. I've lost count of how many fully loaded, poorly seated, "dropped" magazines I've seen in training classes over the years.

People pay good money for this kind of information.

ETA: You can load your pistol and M-14 mags to capacity.

Correct about the M16. We used to get soooooo many guns sent back to the armory from the range because of that. That was with US mil magazines though. Today's aftermarket stuff has that little extra room and compression for the last round or two on a closed bolt.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by knight0334

Correct about the M16. We used to get soooooo many guns sent back to the armory from the range because of that. That was with US mil magazines though.

That doesn't surprise me. Lots of magazines in U.S. >mil inventory that should have been destroyed and replaced long ago.

Today's aftermarket stuff has that little extra room and compression for the last round or two on a closed bolt.

If you're referring to P-Mags, yes they have more "space" but most professionals I know still prefer USGI magazines.

[GunsRfun]

Never heard of leaving one out of the mag. I always keep them fully loaded.

[Carnes]

Originally Posted by TonyF

M16 magazines should be downloaded by two rounds.

20's - 2 = 18

30's - 2 = 28

The reason is that with magazines loaded to capacity there isn't enough space in the mag body to seat the magazine on a closed bolt due to the increased compression from the underside of the BCG impinging on the top round in the magazine.

The reason for downloading by two rounds is so that "crossover" remains consistent.

I don't doubt "some of you" can seat "some of your magazines" loaded to capacity on a closed bolt. That is a combination of your rifle's tolerance stack wedded to a fatigued magazine spring.

Don't bother arguing with me about it because I'm not going to play. I've lost count of how many fully loaded, poorly seated, "dropped" magazines I've seen in training classes over the years.

Okay, well, that is something to take into consideration. However, I certainly do not think that anyone has to shortchange themselves two rounds on every account.

A good recommendation to people is to test, and retest any equipment they have. Load your mags to max, then insert the mag, ensure that it seats. If you find that you cannot easily seat the mag, there are three courses of action. One, practice more. Two, download the mag. Three, trash the mag.

I put 'practice more' first, because the mag will indeed seat, it is just a situation where sometimes people are not used to having to put enough 'ass' behind their mag insert to seat it properly. A person that always loads the weapon on an open bolt, then has to do a 'tac-reload' will likely not seat the mag due to being used to the 'easy seat' associated with loading an AR with the bolt locked to the rear.

As for seeing it happen "too many times" during training classes, I have to argue that that is not a solid justification for the advice you gave. In training classes, you will typically have people that need the training. There will be a large percentage of people who are genuinely ignorant of the weapon system's functioning. You may, perhaps, get a large number of people who are used to loading an AR with a locked bolt, then are surprised by the force required to properly seat a full mag on a closed bolt.

It's a causation vs correlation kind of thing. Just because a bunch of trainee's make the same mistake, is not to say that training should be dumbed down for them. I feel that dropping two from the mag is a way to dumb things down. I hate to see training focused on the lowest common denominator.

The right thing to do is have full mags, and learn how to insert them correctly, every time. But, be warned folks, it may take some practice. Reloads are practiced for the sake of combat, and combat is not for the weak or feint of heart.

Long story short: All my mags are always topped off. Storage, training, preparedness, combat... whatever.

Disclaimer: Now that I've said all this the fates will get me, the next time Tony sees me in a class, I will likely end up having a mag not seat, and drop.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by Carnes

Disclaimer: Now that I've said all this the fates will get me, the next time Tony sees me in a class, I will likely end up having a mag not seat, and drop.

So true. Sometimes the way these things go is that it's a matter of "when" not "if".

It's a causation vs correlation kind of thing. Just because a bunch of trainee's make the same mistake, is not to say that training should be dumbed down for them. I feel that dropping two from the mag is a way to dumb things down. I hate to see training focused on the lowest common denominator.

Many of us have more than one rifle. Many of us have bunches of magazines of various vintage. I'm sure my experience mimics others in that some of my magazines fit kinda loose in some of my rifles and some of them a little snug although all of them must drop free or they get trashed.

It's not about dumbing down a technique.

We emphasize with students that they need to manipulate their weapons in a "manly" fashion. IOW AR15's aren't made of glass so we teach them to "briskly" insert magazines, "briskly" run the charging handle, "briskly" slap the bolt release and so on and so forth.

However, "briskly" inserting fully loaded aluminum magazines on a closed bolt is going to eventually accelerate deformation of the feed lips and the mag catch notch vs. a -2 downloaded magazine because we're talking about the tolerance stack of two components, the mag body dims and the lower receiver dims. ETA: Actually it's tolerance stack of three components to include the fit of the upper receiver to the lower.

If anyone happens to have a magazine which when fully loaded absolutely will not seat with the bolt forward, what is happening is that it's gone beyond impinging on the top round and you're now transferring that force directly to the feed lips and / or mag catch notch.

Granted, such a magazine should be discarded but how do you keep track of the condition of the feed lips and mag catch notch of scores of magazines given that the wear and tear will occur slowly over a period of time?

Downloading M16 magazines by two rounds provides a simple, "universal" solution to ensure the magazine will be properly seated. It's an added measure of "stacking the odds" in our favor should we ever find ourselves in a fight with our rifle.

Surely some will struggle with the cost / benefit factor of losing 2 rounds in the magazine but considering the alternative of "zero" rounds due to a poorly seated magazine dropping unexpectedly out of the magazine well of the rifle, IMHO it's a no-brainer.

To add, I maintain the issue of firepower is a psychological stumbling block in the minds of most shooters. So we lose two rounds. What of the guy with the AR15 in 6.8 SPC and his 25 round magazine? What of the guy with an M1A or FAL and his 20 round magazine? Even at -2 I'll still have 28.

[Lycanthrope]

My 30 round Labelle's will hold and seat with 31......but they won't run with that.

Lycanjustanafterthoughtthrope