Handgun rankings

[jdlv4_0]

For a duty weapon, nothing will beat a Glock, if it 'aint broke don't fix it.
I see no reson to change things on cops, change for the most part is bad especially when it's unnessecary.

The key thing is that your deciding for the whole dept. and you have to put the needs of the many over the likes of the few.

Stick with the Glocks.

[ALS]

I will give you one piece of advice on the HK USP45. It is a very nice gun and extremely accurate, BUT it is a large weapon and difficult to find a holster for.
I presently do carry one for protection and I have resorted to a Wilderness Safe Packer as a holster. Nothing like carrying CCW in plain view.
I would not recommend this gun for every day carry in a police situation. Although I would recommend keeping the .45 in your force. If it was me and I as one of your officers and I could pick my carry weapon from your list, I would go with the Kimber .45.

[Agent Ronin]

Originally Posted by TonyF

Not having had any issues with your handgun indicates to me you haven't had to experience H&K CS. What would be the basis for your statement?

My experience in discussing the issue with various instructors from around the country is that H&K parts are expensive and in many instances non-existent with lead times of several months. This is with LE agencies using their products.

Oh well i guess i should have pointed that out. What i never did have any problems with their products. I did contact them several times with various questions i had. And i always got a prompt courteous response. As for sending something in for service, i have not had any pleasure with that yet. But in terms of calling them for over-the-phone support is much better than most places I've called.

Sorry i should have been more clear on my first post

[jadam8304]

Guys, dont worry about price. It is not an issue for our department. Everyone in our department wants to upgrade to the .45 caliber. I use a Glock 21 on my tactical team, and a Glock 22 on the street. I thank you all for your input. Please keep it coming...

On the fittament issue, only one person has a small grip in our entire department, that is why the .45gap option came into play. It is a .45 caliber handgun in a .40 caliber handgun frame.

Keep the comments coming, it is very appreciated

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by jadam8304

We currently are using Glock 22's that are about ten years old, so its time for new ones. Let me know what you think is the best choice. Don't worry about price, just quality and reliability.

I have to agree with most people here:

1. 1911s represent a completely different manual of arms, hence a lot of retraining dollars and maybe policy rethinking (when is safety on/off? -- not a trivial policy matter). Also you go from 15+1 rds to 8+1 rds in your primary weapon. Also, armorer needs new training/cert, new parts to stock, maybe.

2. G21 handle will be too big for many LEOs, maybe not now, but you are hiring over the next decade, yes?

3. .45 GAP = oddball caliber, expensive, maybe not safe to be locked into for a decade.

Best bet is to stick with exactly what you have, just get new guns.

[VeryPrivate]

I will join the chorus of staying with the Glock 22. If you are determined to transition to .45 ACP, I would recommend a Glock 21, a Springfield XD45 or a S&W SW990L (in 45 ACP). The trigger action of all three is similar enough to ease the transition. The XD45 and SW990 have smaller grips and the SW990 has 3 back-strap sizes. The Glock and XD have higher magazine capacities. S&W is also coming out with a 45 version of their M&P Pistol, which will be worth consideration.

the .45 GAP is not such an odd-ball caliber. Unfortunately, it has not been utilized to its full potential. For example, The XD in .45 ACP has a higher capacity than the XD in .45 GAP. The Glock 21 has a higher capacity than the Clock 38, and so on... For uniformed duty, there is no need for the smaller cartridge size.

[jadam8304]

I know a lot of responses have been in favor of staying with the Glock 22. Our department as a whole wants to upgrade to a .45cal handgun. Remarks have been made about cost, training and even replacement parts or gunsmithing.

1. Cost is not an issue

2. training and training cost is not an issue. We would keep our Glock 22 until each officer has approximenlty 50 to 100 hours of in depth one on one training and can pass the quailications with ease.

3. replacement parts and gunsmithing are not of our concern. Our handguns get sent out to our local gunsmith who does all of our repairs. In the event a handgun goes down and needs repair, we always have at least two spares in the gun locker.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by jadam8304

I know a lot of responses have been in favor of staying with the Glock 22. Our department as a whole wants to upgrade to a .45cal handgun.

Let's examine this. Why, exactly, does the "department as a whole" want to change and why exactly is this considered an "upgrade?"

[Jay5oh]

You asked us what we thought and you have gotten numerous responses/reasons to stay with what you have or go with a similar weapon ie: Springfield XD. You keep coming back with justification on getting 1911 stlye pistols so.......

Just flip a coin and get the Springfield or Kimber 1911's. It's what you want to hear/get.

Personally, I think as a "all across the board" duty pistol it's a bad choice. I will give this simple analogy:
The Glock is like a disposable point and shoot camera. Everyone can use it.
The 1911 is like a Nikon D2h Pro camera. It takes alot more training and knowlege to operate it.

[FUNDAMENTALS]

ONE OF THE FACTORS YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CONSIDER IS THE
OVERALL COST IN CHANGING TO A NEW WEAPONS SYSTEM. NOT JUST
THE HARDWARE ITSELF, BUT THE SUPPORT EQUIPMENT AS WELL, SUCH AS
NEW HOLSTERS, POSSIBLY MAGAZINE POUCHES, ETC. THEY KEY WILL BE THE
ACTUAL COST OF TRANSITIONAL TRAINING WITH THE NEW SYSTEM. HOW MANY
HOURS OF INSTRUCTION/QULAFICATION WILL YOU HAVE TO BUDGET FOR. WILL
THIS MEET WITH APPROVAL/DISAPPROVAL, WITH THE GOVERNING BODY OF YOUR
MUNICIPALITY. IN MY CAREER IN LE, I HAD TO JUSTIFY ALL THIS 4 TIMES IN A
27 YEAR CAREER. YOU PRESENTLY HAVE ONE OF THE FINEST FIREARMS ON THE
MARKET. WHY NOT UPGRADE YOUR PRESENT SYSTEM, TAC LIGHTS/LASERS , SENDING OFFICERS TO WEAPONS TRAINING SCHOOLS FOR TACTICAL USE, BRINGING IT BACK TO SHARE WITH ALL THE TROOPS. I AM SURE IF YOU CONTACT
GLOCK WITH WHAT YOU WANT FOR UPGRADES IN YOUR 10 YEAR OLD GLOCKS THEY WILL WORK WITH YOU. THERE IS MORE BUT MY GRANDAUGHTER IS 2 AND
SHE WANTS SOME ATTENTION.