Handgun aiming with both eyes open? Need some help.

[WVneighbor]

I'm having a bit of trouble with my fiancee. No, not THAT kind of trouble. She is getting a little frustrated at her shooting ability and I'm at the point where I'm not able to do much good for her. So I'm looking for help/suggestions.

Here goes ....

The gun is a Sig P226 9mm, bone stock from the factory. The target is a wal-mart purchase, Champion ScoreKeeper 25 yard slowfire pistol, I'm sure you all have seen one. Outside diameter is about the size of a dinner plate.

We have been working primarily with the Traditional Isosceles stance. Her stance is good, no bending backwards, no leaning to one side or the other. We also worked with the single hand grip, standing sideways to the target, strong side facing target, etc. She has no problem managing the recoil, nor is she 'gun shy'.

Her grip is good as well. Strong hand is positioned well, heel of weak hand is placed on the grips between strong fingers & strong heel, the fingers of the weak hand wrap around strong hand fingers, weak thumb holds strong thumb down. Her grip is firm and secure.

She is right eye dominant. We did a test where you form a diamond with your hands, look at a distant object, and bring your hands to your face while still seeing the object.

The only problem we are having is with her aiming. She cant close one eye at a time so she has to shoot with both eyes open. She cant 'see' the front sight to focus on it because the rear sight is in the way. I've tried forming a sight picture with both eyes open and what I'm seeing is exactly what she is describing. I 'see' the rear sight, but I also 'see' the front sights, except it looks like there is a front sight on either side of the rear sight.

This is a pretty good rendition of what she is seeing. Black is rear sight, red is front sight.



She is able to get 17 out of 20 rounds on the target at about 25 yards (give or take a foot or so), a bit low, but almost all are within say a group the size of my hand. There are a couple fliers here and there, but the majority of her shots are in recognizable group.

Is this good enough for self defense shooting? I held the target up to my chest and whoever she hits is going to have a very bad day. I'd say 19 out of 20 rounds were on the paper, which means 19 shots would have hit the upper torso.

I'm just lost as where or how to proceed. She has developed a habit (bad) of keeping stance and grip correct, but turning her head to the left so the bridge of her nose obscures her left eye, then she can get a proper sight picture, but she looks kinda goofy doing it.

I'm planning a range trip this weekend and would like some new ideas of how to work around this.

Any suggestions are welcome.

[Twister]

I've heard putting a small piece of tape on the non-dominant eye lense of the safety glasses will be enough to 'clue' the brain into focusing via the dominant eye properly.

I just shut my non-dominant eye long enough to learn which is the 'real' sight picture.

[PisnNapalm]

Try getting an eye patch to cover her weak eye. Let her practice with that and get used to seeing the correct sight picture with her dominant eye.

Once she has become used to that, remove the patch and see how well she can reacquire that correct sight picture.

I don't know if it will work, but it's about the best I could think of right now.

I am left eye dominant and I shoot right handed. I also shoot pistol with both eyes open usually. I don't have a problem acquiring the front sight.

I do use an eye patch when shooting my target rifle. Having to close my left eye for a long time causes tremors in my cheek and it throws off my aim. That's why I thought a patch may help.

[Lycanthrope]

Originally Posted by Twister

I've heard putting a small piece of tape on the non-dominant eye lense of the safety glasses will be enough to 'clue' the brain into focusing via the dominant eye properly.

I just shut my non-dominant eye long enough to learn which is the 'real' sight picture.

Dime sized piece of scotch tape on the non dominant eye.


Lycanfixedthrope

[synergy]

Originally Posted by WVneighbor

I 'see' the rear sight, but I also 'see' the front sights, except it looks like there is a front sight on either side of the rear sight.

Any suggestions are welcome.

If you can see more than 1 front sight, you're not focusing on it. I shoot for group size with 1 eye shut, and shoot combat stuff with both eyes open (unless I'm trying to land a tight shot).

What I find is that the TARGET goes super fuzzy for me, when I shoot both eyes open, and the rear sight goes double.....just gotta pick which of the two rear sights to use...lol.

Tape over the shooting lens sounds like the easy fix, to me.

[batalha_com.308]

I had read in a book or mag, that woman in general have a tendancy to point instead of aim. could be some of the issue.

Covering the non dominant eye is the best way to train the dominant eye to develop a sight pic, but i assume that you are teaching her for self defense too. in which case in a stressful situation she may get confused between her natural instinct to point and her training with dominant eye sight pick. causing hesitation, more stress , lack of confidance, loss of intention, and perhaps a dangerous window for an attacker to strike.

Most tactical pistol training puts emphasis on BOTH eyes open for the most rapid sight acuisition and and target tracking. Also since most defensive shootings occur in less then ideal lighting (at least according to the surefire ad , heh heh) she will have both eyes open and scanning, you want to build on that.
Having one eye open is a learned behaivior, and you want defensive shooting to be more like an instinct. ( think of a surprised or scared person their eyes widen, and pupils dialate)(Also the way our eyes work in low light situations we NEED our binocular vision or the target gets washed in gray until the eye moves)

Also 25 yds? get a rifle. Try her at 5-7 yards when she is sucssesful move the target back another couple yards until she gets good there and so on. Those short ranges might seem lame to you but it will really boost her confidence and make her want to keep practicing. Remember you probally learned as a kid and it took you a littl while to get good so be patient with her pace. In reality she is doing awesome. Partly for not bieng scared to picking up the pistol.

If your really serious about her defending herself and maybe others take her to a pro. They can be costly so you could also watch some videos together. Good for your fundamentals and she will have your support in learning, which she will really appritiate. Also try some dry fire exercises. And practice alot.

[radnor]

I've used a box flap from ammo box, leaf, and a piece of loose leaf paper to block the eye. (Total lens blocked.)

Read about the tape before. I just put a piece of tape on my glasses here and it works! Cant see beans from the eye that's blocked by it. You can still see around the tape to acquire a target. But when you focus on the post blocked eye is out of the picture.

[marinakorp]

A few things.

25 Yards (give or take a foot) is the outside area for a self defense... not to say that the occasional shot from 25 yards can be taken in a self defense situation... but you are n "bullseye" shooting territory.


Try movin a little closer. 7 - 10 yards (21 to 30 feet!) Still a pretty far shot for self defense, but manageable

To be combat accutate at 7-10 yards, and you can cover all shots with the palm of your hand, in the center of mass, at a fairly rapid pace... works for me.

Also... if thay are all in a grouping ... a little low... sounds like she may be dumping the rounds... yea, she has a great grip and is not shy ion the gun... etc..

Recommend placing a "dummy" round randomly in one of her magazines. (You load the magazine) and when the gun does not go BANK... notice where the gun is pointed. If not EXACTLY where it was when she started to AIM the gun... you will tell that there is movement, expecting the re-coil, dumping,

[RandomTask]

I'm a microbiologist. We were always taught to view through a monocular microscope with both eyes open. I have no problem shooting with both eyes open, with a pistol, or rifle - scoped or unscoped. I was always under the impression that keeping both eyes open was the proper technique for shooting, and I have no trouble hitting the broad side of a barn.
So, maybe get a used monocular microscope for her to use as a training aid.

[HSMaxim]

Like some of the others, I think that 25 yards is way to far for defensive shooting practice.

I think that the real problem is a short sight radius on a target that is too far away. Pistol sights are just to close to be able to focus accurately at those distances, at least for a novice.

For defensive shooting, it is going to be point and shoot. I shot local USPSA matches for a few years and after a couple of matches, found myself just point shooting just like most of the other shooters. We shot mainly at IPSC targets and 6"X6" steel at 5-7 yards.

Do like the others suggested, move the target closer.