Surplus Sigs

[panther76]

After a few months of waiting I finally received my shipment of surplus Sigs and got to test them at the range. I have seen comments in several threads mentioning that other people have purchased a P6. So let’s talk surplus Sigs.

[panther76]

I guess I should mention some background on the P6. As best as I can determine, the P6 was the original German military/police designation for what most of us know as the Sig Sauer P225. It was one of the guns approved in the 70’s to replace the Walthers most German cops were carrying. While some of the Bundes Polizei and I think two of the Landes Polizei organizations chose the HK P7 or Walther P5, the Sig Sauer P6 became the most common LaPol sidearm. A bunch have been imported to the U.S. and resold by various dealers lately.

Anyone who knows what the German cops replaced it with please let me know. I know the German military replaced the Walther P1 and is now using an HK 9mm similar to the USP. I'm not sure if that was also the police choice. Any ideas?

[panther76]

Disclaimer: I do not claim my test was perfect. I claim only that I attempted to conduct it with the same pseudo-scientific methods preferred by all the big name gun writers when they do product reviews. Which is another way of saying the results shouldn’t be taken as evidence of anything except a propensity for spending a bunch of money needlessly burning up ammo.

The guns were given two tests; one for reliability and the other for accuracy. The accuracy was tested by slow firing from a rest, seated, at a bullseye target placed at about ten yards. I say “about” ten yards because I paced-off the distance and I have a short stride. Three shooters each fired twenty rounds through each gun and checked the groupings. The reliability was then tested by rapid fire standing, at steel plate targets, with each shooter firing 180 rounds. All total each gun had about two hundred rounds of Federal 115 gr FMJ in a very short period of time, and mags and guns had some dust sprinkled on them for good measure. I then put a box of Federal Hydrashok 124 gr and Hornday TAP 124 gr JHPs through them to see how they handled premium defense ammo.

Results:

Gun #1 was an early 1990’s serial number with white dot and line style sights and rounded edges on the slide. It was the same as every Sig Sauer P225 I’ve ever handled. Finish had slight holster wear, well over 90% blue, excellent or better condition. Some blue missing on the serrations of the front-strap. Shooting for accuracy this gun was a tack-driver. Way more accurate than most shooters, including myself. Trigger is a little heavy on DA, probably around ten pounds, SA pull is super light, under five. Holes were touching or within a silver dollar sized group. Shooting for reliability it had zero malfunctions. I have already carried this gun as my CCW in a Galco Royal Guard holster IWB.

Gun #2 was an early 1980’s serial number. It had plain iron sights and un-rounded edges on the slide. Also a slightly different cut on the ejection port. Otherwise it was identical to civilian P225. Slight holster wear still 90% blue excellent condition. Shooting for accuracy, all three shooters felt it shot a little left with proper sight picture, but groupings were excellent. Visually the muzzle crown and bore look identical to Gun #1, and the sights look OK. Mystery to me. Shooting for reliability the gun was 100%. Good enough that I’d carry it for CCW, but I’d like to get the sights replaced or barrel replaced eventually.

Gun #3 was an early 1980’s serial number. Same as Gun#2 but more holster wear on the slide, I guess still around 85% or 90% blue overall. Shooting for accuracy all three shooters felt the gun was accurate but not as precise as Gun #1 or #2. Visually the barrel doesn’t look any more worn than the other two. Groups were probably closer to 3” than 1”. Shooting for reliability the gun had one malfunction. Slide failed to lock back after last round. Same gun did the same thing for a different shooter during slow fire for accuracy. I’d like to replace the slide lock and barrel, and probably replace the sights with something easier to see. Over all, I’d carry the gun as a CCW as is. I felt it is accurate enough, and had no malfunctions that would leave me dead in a gunfight.

Conclusions: Normally I’d say you get what you pay for, but these surplus P6s are a real bargain. The Sig Sauer “Classic” models with the “Made in W. Germany” stamp on the slide, IMHO, are actually better than the stuff being put out by Sig Sauer now. It isn’t that Sigs new stuff is bad, it is just that I wouldn’t shell out $800 for it, when these old guns are floating around at bargain prices. They aren’t as lightweight as some of the newer polymer frame guns, and they don’t have a hi-cap mags. So on paper I would say they lose to a Glock 19 or XD. And they aren’t pocket sized like the Kahr P9/PM9 or new Walther PPS. But these guns have a certain quality of craftsmanship that makes them a pleasure to shoot. Mine are going to get a lot of use.

[Hawk]

Replace the springs on all three with the Wolf kit. Also, you can lighten the trigger pull with a replacement Wolf hammer spring. I love mine, except for the trigger shape, it tends to force your finger down which then drags along the trigger guard when firing. I replaced the factory grips with the Pachmayr Signature series (hard to find, discontinued back in 99). It's my favorite pistol, easy to aim and easy to control recoil. I just replaced the factory sights with Trijicon night sights - sweet!

[panther76]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Replace the springs on all three with the Wolf kit.

Any idea where I can get a replacement barrel ? I checked Bar-Sto and they don't offer one. The Wolf springs and Trijicon suggestions are something I will definitely do. For grips I'd like to get walnut ones by Nill.

http://www.nill-griffe.com/

[Mity2]

Originally Posted by panther76

Anyone who knows what the German cops replaced it with please let me know. I know the German military replaced the Walther P1 and is now using an HK 9mm similar to the USP. I'm not sure if that was also the police choice. Any ideas?

Last time I was told, German police now use varietion of Heckler & Koch USP. There are 2 models - one is called P-8, and one is called P-10.
P-8, used by Bundeswehr (German armed forces) is a standard USP with specific features, such as a safety/decocker lever and translucent plastic magazines. It has only minor differences from the standard USP model, these being a reversed safety/decocker lever (on the P8, down indicates 'safe', and up indicates 'fire' — this is the opposite of the standard USP), and the 'S' and 'F' letters being printed onto the frame instead of onto the lever itself
The P10, adopted by many German State Police forces, is in fact a USP Compact with the addition of a spurred hammer

[knighthawk06699]

Originally Posted by panther76

Anyone who knows what the German cops replaced it with please let me know.

I know that at least some of them are carrying a Walther P99 in 9mm.

[King 5.45]

Originally Posted by panther76

Any idea where I can get a replacement barrel ? I checked Bar-Sto and they don't offer one. The Wolf springs and Trijicon suggestions are something I will definitely do. For grips I'd like to get walnut ones by Nill.

http://www.nill-griffe.com/

Supposedly there's a group buy effort on SIGForum for barrels from Bar-Sto, specifically, threaded ones to accommodate a silencer.

[ithinkimamedic]

Who is currently selling the P6's and at what price? who's are in better condition? Inquiring minds what to know before I take the dive.

[panther76]

Here are some photos I uploaded.