PA Patriot: Take a look at this

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by Statkowski

The county commissioners may very well be able to pass an ordinance prohibiting the carrying of firearms by all law enforcement personnel in a court facility except for court security personnel, but not all county property.

How so? How do they get around "in any manner" and "for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth"?

Court facility or not, the State Legislature is still the final (and only) authority on this point. If the state legislature allows Constables to carry in a court facility (and they DO), the county has no standing to say otherwise.

[Statkowski]

§ 913. Possession of firearm or other dangerous weapon in court facility.
(a) Offense defined.--A person commits an offense if he:
1. knowingly possesses a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a court facility or knowingly causes a firearm or other dangerous weapon to be present in a court facility; or
....
(c) Exceptions.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to:
1. The lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent or employee of the United States, the Commonwealth or a political subdivision who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation or prosecution of any violation of law.
2. The lawful performance of official duties by a court official.
....

Per 913(c)1, define "lawful performance of official duties."

A constable brings in lawbreakers and hands them over to the county sheriff. What official duties does a constable, or any other law enforcement officer, perform inside a court facility? Serve as a witness? Does being a witness statutorily require the carrying of a firearm? Sheriff's deputies perform law enforcement duties within a court facility, and as such, may carry a firearm.

Interesting interpretation, but possibly a valid one.

As stated, a restriction on other county property, however, is a no-no.

[gnbrotz]

Well, I'll say this - you're certainly provoking some thought on my end.

[knight0334]

Here is case law on what municipalities may do in regards to making laws regulating firearms that is already dictated by state law.


Minich(and others) v Jefferson County(and others)

http://www.courts.state.pa.us/OpPost...06_3-14-07.pdf

Final word is pretty much that municipality can make laws that only supplement state law, but cannot exceed it.

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by knight0334

Here is case law on what municipalities may do in regards to making laws regulating firearms that is already dictated by state law.


Minich(and others) v Jefferson County(and others)

http://www.courts.state.pa.us/OpPost...06_3-14-07.pdf

Final word is pretty much that municipality can make laws that only supplement state law, but cannot exceed it.

THANK YOU

I've been trying to find that specific case for the preemption issue in Hazle Twp.

[Swarner793]

Originally Posted by Mike

This part of the oirdiance is wrong in limiting gun checking to LTCF holders - ha anyone told them?
--
(C) Proffer, Storage, Return, and Disposal of Firearms. Any person bringing a firearm onto County property contrary to the provisions of this Ordinance, shall be initially screened by Security Department personnel to ensure that the person holds a valid firearms license to carry a concealed weapon. Once the firearms license is verified, the licensed person carrying the firearm will be escorted to an area with a secure storage container, which will not be located in the Courtrooms of record, Judges’ Chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, Clerk of Courts Office, District Attorney’s Office, Sheriff’s Offices, Probation and Parole Departments, or any corridor adjoining any of the above, as well as away from any space or area that is used in any public capacity. The licensed person will then be instructed to safely place the firearm and all ammunition in a secure storage container. The container will be locked, and Security Department personnel will retain the key, while providing the licensed person a receipt for his/or weapon and ammunition. Upon leaving the building, the licensed person will present the receipt to Security Department personnel. He/she will then be escorted by Security Department personnel to the storage container and be permitted to retrieve his/her firearm and ammunition. The licensed person will then immediately leave the building. At all times, Security Department personnel shall have the authority to deny such accommodations to the licensed person, and deny access to the building, if the licensed person, in the sole judgment of the Security Department personnel, displays any unsafe firearm handling practices. In that situation, the licensed person will be advised to leave the building and to return only when the licensed person is not in possession of a firearm. Any person not claiming the firearm and ammunition within twenty-four (24) hours will have such materials treated in the same manner as provided for other weapons in paragraph B above.
(D) Seizure of Weapons.

Not to split hairs further, but are the Security Officers "Law Enforcement Officers"? 6122 reads that an LEO can ask for it, but Security Officers? I ran into that some time back in Lycoming County. The Security Officers work for Securitas and one had demanded mine.

Be safe.

Scott


§ 6122. Proof of license and exception.
(a) General rule.--When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.

[pex]

Originally Posted by Statkowski

Per 913(c)1, define "lawful performance of official duties."

A constable brings in lawbreakers and hands them over to the county sheriff. What official duties does a constable, or any other law enforcement officer, perform inside a court facility? Serve as a witness? Does being a witness statutorily require the carrying of a firearm? Sheriff's deputies perform law enforcement duties within a court facility, and as such, may carry a firearm.

Interesting interpretation, but possibly a valid one.

As stated, a restriction on other county property, however, is a no-no.

Constables are peace officers and the courthouse is not a crime-free zone. There's no reason they can't be continuing to be peace officers inside the courthouse. That is a 'duty' and they would be in lawful performance.

[mjf]

Originally Posted by Statkowski

Per 913(c)1, define "lawful performance of official duties."

A constable brings in lawbreakers and hands them over to the county sheriff. What official duties does a constable, or any other law enforcement officer, perform inside a court facility? Serve as a witness? Does being a witness statutorily require the carrying of a firearm? Sheriff's deputies perform law enforcement duties within a court facility, and as such, may carry a firearm.

Interesting interpretation, but possibly a valid one.

As stated, a restriction on other county property, however, is a no-no.

Constables can provide some law enforcement functions within a courthouse.. For one, Constables can provide prisoner transport... Some counties actually disarm Constables while providing prisoner transport (in a courthouse), which honestly makes no sense. I also agree that since peacekeeping is an "official duty", as long as you're wearing a badge you should be fine.