Limerick Township Violates Preemption!?

[TcRoc]

Wed. sounds good cause the meeting is Thurs isn't it ??

[exceltoexcel]

Okay so wednesday at 6pm french creek outfitters and thursday 7pm we'll meet at the town hall. right next to fox ridge

[LittleRedToyota]

good luck guys! thanks for going to bat for our rights.

[Archiver]

With you in spirit!

[exceltoexcel]

Update:

Dan and I, after taking the long way through half the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, made an appearance at the Limerick board of supervisors meeting today.

Dan gave a very well articulated speech about the violation of preemption by the limerick township. Touching on just about everything that could be said on the true subject matter, passing a law that is in violation of preemption.

The towns response was "Thank you".

I said nothing during the meeting because there was nothing left to be said and reiterating didn't seem prudent.

My hope is that the town will actually think about what he said and consider it.

However I doubt they did much more than brush on the subject afterwards, if that.

It is now my duty to follow up on this matter, to its end, unsing the best of my abilities.

My current plan of action is as follows.

1. Contact the Limerick police chief and find out if anyone has ever been prosecuted under the specific law that violates preemption. My hope is that someone was prosecuted under the law. That could be the back door to get them to address the issue. My thought is that if someone was ever prosecuted, they would be interested in knowing that they might be able to expunge thier record by fighting it in court as a law in violation of commonwealth law.

2. Contact each and every board member via an e-mail and letter sent by certified registered mail about the specific violation.

3. Attend the December 14th meeting and bite for an answer. I'm looking to see if there is someway I can call for an actual hearing.

4. If it comes to it and I feel it necessary, take legal action against the township for $1 worth of damages. The thought is that I cannot drive on the road through the park because of the illegal law, therefore I must drive around the park costing me precious pennies over the course of nearly four years as a township resident. Hoping that in a civil case the judge would find that the law is illegal, rather or not he finds that I suffered any damages or not. If the law was illegal than he might say that I could have just violated it, ignoring the law and I wouldn't have suffered damages so none will be awarded or that the law was illegal and I did suffer minor damages.

5. (dare I say it) The last option is to violate the law, let the police be aware of it, getting a citation, winning in court and going through loads of trouble trying to get my record expunged, my gun back and pray to get the LTCF back. This I doubt I would do, because I don't believe the fight is worth the win.

Dan is exactly the type of person you'd want to run an organization like this. Everyone here needs to know just how much time and effort he put into this and should give him a big thank you for standing up for our rights.

I'll keep you all updated throughout the process.

If anyone cares enough to help stand up for our rights in limerick then please join me for the next town meeting. PM me!

Thank you for your time,

Ted John Noga

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by exceltoexcel

I'll be visiting the two parks I know about to see if they have a rules sign up and if it contains such wording, if it does we need to make them change those signs as well.

Here is one to get changed. Covers the parks in your area.
SkippackTownshipPark Rules

Chapter 128, Article 1

Code of the Township of Skippack

• Parks are open from sunup to sundown. No persons are permitted on park property unless the park is open.
• Fires are not permitted except in approved areas. All fires must be extinguished prior to leaving the picnic area.
• No person shall cut, mutilate, or remove any tree, shrub, flower, or other park property.
• No person shall deface, mar or otherwise damage any park property.
• No person shall consume, sell, distribute or transport alcoholic beverages or drugs or other controlled substances upon park property.
• No person shall engage in unruly indecent, boisterous or disorderly behavior or in any activity which would endanger human health.
• Dogs or other animals shall be permitted on park property, subject to the following conditions:
  • Guide dogs working for the visually impaired are permitted at any time with their owner.
  • Dogs are permitted along walking paths only, and are not permitted on athletic fields. All dogs shall be leashed at all times. All owners shall immediately bag and dispose of dog feces.
  • Horses are permitted only on expressly authorized or designated riding trails
• Hunting/trapping in not permitted on park property at any time.
• No person shall posses or transport a firearm, pellet gun, BB gun, bow and arrow, or slingshot on park property.
• Fireworks are not permitted on park property.
• Littering is not permitted. All refuse, trash and rubbish shall be removed from the park or placed in park receptacles provided for that purpose.
• No motorized vehicles are permitted except in designated areas.

Any person violating any provision of this article shall, upon being found liable

therefore in a civil enforcement proceeding, pay a fine of not more than $600, plus all court costs, including reasonable attorney’s fees, incurred by the township in the enforcement of this article.

[ChamberedRound]

You and Dan both should be commended for attending the meeting and making all our views on this situation known. In the end I don't think anyone's going to convince them to change the ordinance without taking legal action, but it makes sense to go slow on such issues.

As for as your ideas:

Originally Posted by exceltoexcel

1. Contact the Limerick police chief and find out if anyone has ever been prosecuted under the specific law that violates preemption. My hope is that someone was prosecuted under the law. That could be the back door to get them to address the issue. My thought is that if someone was ever prosecuted, they would be interested in knowing that they might be able to expunge thier record by fighting it in court as a law in violation of commonwealth law.

This one makes sense, as it would additionally give us another person to join in the fight, and that person will probably be grateful that there's other people out there that have mutual interest in changing the law and getting his/her record expunged.

Originally Posted by exceltoexcel

2. Contact each and every board member via an e-mail and letter sent by certified registered mail about the specific violation.

Definitely steps that should be followed. In addition to email and voicemail, regular mail and even one-on-one meetings (if possible) might be valuable. With the exception of the one-on-one, we could mobilize the troops here to contact these guys.

Originally Posted by exceltoexcel

3. Attend the December 14th meeting and bite for an answer. I'm looking to see if there is someway I can call for an actual hearing.

Good idea, as it will give an indication of whether or not they even took what Dan said and thought about it, or if it went in one ear and out the other.

Originally Posted by exceltoexcel

4. If it comes to it and I feel it necessary, take legal action against the township for $1 worth of damages. The thought is that I cannot drive on the road through the park because of the illegal law, therefore I must drive around the park costing me precious pennies over the course of nearly four years as a township resident. Hoping that in a civil case the judge would find that the law is illegal, rather or not he finds that I suffered any damages or not. If the law was illegal than he might say that I could have just violated it, ignoring the law and I wouldn't have suffered damages so none will be awarded or that the law was illegal and I did suffer minor damages.

If you want to pursue this route, good luck to you. It will definitely be an uphill battle.

Originally Posted by exceltoexcel

5. (dare I say it) The last option is to violate the law, let the police be aware of it, getting a citation, winning in court and going through loads of trouble trying to get my record expunged, my gun back and pray to get the LTCF back. This I doubt I would do, because I don't believe the fight is worth the win.

IMHO, bad idea

Again, thanks for your efforts, and please do keep us all posted.

[billamj]

I applaud and support both you and Dan for everything that you've done to address this issue. The only way that I can see the courts finding this viable would be if the Township fights it as a private property issue. In that case it would be the same situation as state colleges and universities. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

[exceltoexcel]

I just found out that if I need to I can contact the states attorney generals office and that they might actually be able to sue the township upon my behalf.

The $1 case would be a simple small claims case, it's just an idea thrown out there.

Simple enough to do and it wouldn't be costly at all, at least for myself.

It would make it very clear that I'm serious should it come to that.

However, I have a feeling the law will be appealed within the next three scheduled meetings.

Next on the 14th-Dec will stir the pot hard.

the 28th-Dec is canceled

The 12th-Jan should make them put it on the agenda for a vote

the 26th-Jan should be the vote.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by billamj

I applaud and support both you and Dan for everything that you've done to address this issue. The only way that I can see the courts finding this viable would be if the Township fights it as a private property issue. In that case it would be the same situation as state colleges and universities. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

PUBLIC parks are not private property, they are property every one pays with their tax dollars. Cant apply as private property at all.