Do ya think the ATF would go for this?

[Mtdew]

Originally Posted by djturnz

I had posted a couple of time on different forums that it would be nice if you could buy an R&D stamp for a suppressor to see try to make one for yourself. I know that most people say to not waste your money trying to make one and just buy one. I'd like to try my hand at making one, but I don't want to spend $200 to find out I can't and waste a stamp.

Well I came up with a way to do it, maybe. I don't know if the ATF would go for it but maybe. I'll lay it out, tell me what you think OF MY IDEA. I really don't want to hear that I'd be better off just buying a commercial suppressor in this thread.

I read somewhere that people have registered an adaptor to mount a soda bottle to the muzzle for a suppressor. The adaptor is the suppressor and the bottle is a baffle or wipe or something like that. If this is true, ( I think all the stories I read were "I heard of a guy") why couldn't you register the adaptor, but make a can out of metal and try to design the insides yourself. Then if it doesn't work, buy a commercial can that fits the adaptor. No I'm not saying that you use an adaptor for a soda bottle for this one, just the premise behind it.

Ok now, tell me why it's a dumb idea.

The "soda bottle" adaptor is curently ok in the eyes of the ATF since they (currently) consider the bottle to be a replaceable wipe. HOWEVER in the recent past the ATF considered wipes to be supressors themselves and NOT replaceable.

Wipes are replaceable, BAFFLES are not.

With your adaptor registered as the supressor [which the ATF will not allow: read about the inital proposed S# location of the AAC prodigy] as Bloomautomatic allready stated your tube and each baffle you make would be unregistered supressors.


If you want to build a supressor do the required research into baffle design. I'm not talking spending 45minutes reading the quick and dirty homemede silencer book those books are garbage as are 99.999% of the ideas you hear from random people. I'm talking about months to years of reading everything you can about different designs and looking at every picture and drawing of commercial baffles that you can find. You need to understand the difference between the K, M, omega, slant, aztech, and elipson designs

*IF* you do that and understsand how each design works then building a functional & effective supressor ON THE FIRST TRY is not that hard.


Just be assured though that even after all that it's cheaper to buy one due to the time and effort you have to invest to do it right.

[brewguy]

I'm not sure exactly what you need as far as testing. Do you just want to see if you can build one? If you can physically make it but before you mount or test what is wrong with that? It is just a muffler, since it is not mounted there is no proof of its intent.

Why can't you build it first, if you are able to actually make one, then get a stamp. I don't see the problem with that. I mean ANYTHING can be a suppressor. If you want to test it try using some compressed air or somethign else loud..

Plus if you are just tinkering around in your garage who is going to know?? Heck if someone asks say you are trying to make an air tool muffler, those suckers are loud!

[Mtdew]

Originally Posted by brewguy

I'm not sure exactly what you need as far as testing. Do you just want to see if you can build one? If you can physically make it but before you mount or test what is wrong with that? It is just a muffler, since it is not mounted there is no proof of its intent.

Why can't you build it first, if you are able to actually make one, then get a stamp. I don't see the problem with that. I mean ANYTHING can be a suppressor. If you want to test it try using some compressed air or somethign else loud..

Plus if you are just tinkering around in your garage who is going to know?? Heck if someone asks say you are trying to make an air tool muffler, those suckers are loud!

a car/lawnmower muffler and a silencer have NOTHING but the EFFECT in common. Anyone who has any knowledge of supressor design can spot internals from across a room.

building a unregistered suppressor is THE SAME and building a F/A in the eyes of the ATF

so wile your at it you might as well just drill sear holes in all your AR's and AK's and convert everything else you own to full auto.....

[bloomautomatic]

Originally Posted by brewguy

Plus if you are just tinkering around in your garage who is going to know?? Heck if someone asks say you are trying to make an air tool muffler, those suckers are loud!

Like the chinese say, stealing is legal until you get caught. Same logic could be applied to any other illegal activity. Grow weed in your closet and no one is gonna know. if anyone asks, tell 'em it's oregano.

The form 1 process is not very difficult to go through. If you wanna dance, pay the piper. In the gun world, $200 really ain't that much any more - especially in the NFA world.

Vince

[Chevmeister]

Just a hypothetical question, since you need to file adn get the stamp before building. could you get the stamp, build the silencer, try it and if it didnt work, destroy it then build another? If it didnt exist when you got your paperwork whos to say the third attempt wanst the one you filed for as long as attempt 1 and 2 get melted before tryign again.

[bloomautomatic]

Originally Posted by Chevmeister

Just a hypothetical question, since you need to file adn get the stamp before building. could you get the stamp, build the silencer, try it and if it didnt work, destroy it then build another? If it didnt exist when you got your paperwork whos to say the third attempt wanst the one you filed for as long as attempt 1 and 2 get melted before tryign again.

Legally, no. If you made a suppressor and it didn't work, you could destroy it, and you would need to notify ATF that it no longer exists. To make another one legally, you would need to file another form 1 and pay another $200.

Vince

[SigForLife]

Hold on, if that were the case, how could all the suppressor companies "rebuild" a suppressor? They are in essence destroying it, and reconstituting it. They do not need to re-register the suppressor, nor do you. It has the same serial number, just different internals.

[Gun Bowanna]

The manufacturer is a yearly Special tax paying entity. SOT = Special Occupational Taxpayer. The key word here is "Occupational". They are paying a yearly fee to manufacture suppressors, and as such may service and rebuild anyones' suppressor. But can only restamp their own manufactured models.

[SigForLife]

Correct, and for paying that SOT fee, they do not incur any registration cost. Similarly, if you register to build your own suppressor, you are paying the registration fee in lieu of the SOT fee, because you are limiting it to one suppressor, not multiples. Thus, you are the manufacturer and should be allowed to rebuild your own suppressor.

[Mtdew]

Originally Posted by SigForLife

and should be allowed to rebuild your own suppressor.

and thats debatable... the problem is that a form 1 maker is just that.. IE the "maker" not a manufacturer that distinction makes a difference.

There are ATF letters going both ways as far as a form 1 maker being able to replace internals. Wipes are currently ok to replace however baffles by themselves are considered supressors. Since you only paid the tax to create ONE supressor as soon as you destroy the original baffle thats is it's destroyed. Making another baffle constitutes a NEW supressor that you have not paid the tax on.

In addition recent ATF rulings the made it crystal clear that NO ONE including the manufacturer may replace the seralized tube.