1ST time buyer SBR/NFA timeline..

[WhiteFeather]

General Curiosity Question for one of the gun trust lawyers

What happens IF you have a correctly created (a personal) trust and do everything right, then tragedy strikes.

Both you and your spouse get killed in accident, how are the NFA items held by the trust handled if they are under the legal age to posses them?

Is their a procedure to transfer them to a class 3 dealer for “repairs”, or some other procedure of transfer them to third party till they reach the legal age to posses them.

Is the procedure any different with the same accident circumstance if item is on form 4?

thanks.

[Gun Trust Lawyer, David G]

In short, the answer is yes a NFA trust should have the ability to hold items for minors until they reach a specified age. The difference in a NFA trust and a generic trust for this purpose is what happens once a person reaches that age. In the trusts we create, we give the successor trustee the ability to look at the child upon reaching an age greater than 21 (typically 25) and make the determination of whether it is a good idea to put this weapon in the hands of that person- if they say no, they can wait an additional period of time, or decide to convert the item into cash for the benefit of the beneficiary.

IE. I have an 8 year old, I have no idea who he will be when he is 25. When I die, no matter what age my son is, the successor trustee will look at him and say is he 25. If he is or when he reaches 25, they will have the ability to consider the effect of giving my son (based upon his present mental state, solely in the eyes of the trustee) the items in my trust.

One thing we should remember is that nothing is certain, as much as I would like to believe my son should be able to handle a suppressor or SBR, only time will tell if that would be a wise choice. But at that time if it is definitely not a good idea, i would not want my class 3 items in his hands.

A normal will, no will, or normal trust doesn't give anyone this ability. That is why I say a NFA trust is very different from a trust and offers many advantages over owning these items as an individual or in a generic trust.

Hope this answered your questions

[Gun Trust Lawyer, David G]

The procedure for repairs, unless state law would modify things is the same for a trust or individual purchase. If the repair required manufacturing such as the replacement of a barrel, then it is possible that a Form 1 would be required. The dealer / repair facility should be able to tell you whether they have the proper ability to do repairs.

With a trust, you could always appoint them as the trustee, and then remove them as a trustee once they were finished. With any changes like this the BATFE would like to see amendments to the trust

NOTE: as per my local class 3 dealer, not every class 3 dealer has a license or the ability to fix these items. When a dealer has the ability to do so through their license, they may take possession from any entity to do the repair without a transfer fee being applied.

Originally Posted by WhiteFeather

General Curiosity Question for one of the gun trust lawyers


Is their a procedure to transfer them to a class 3 dealer for “repairs”, or some other procedure of transfer them to third party till they reach the legal age to posses them.

thanks.

[sluggie24]

I set up my trust so that another trustee(one of a few relatives of mine) would take over the trust if something happened to me. Then when my son reaches 25 years old he will get the trust. If he doesn't want it everything can always be sold through a dealer at that time.

[Gun Trust Lawyer, David G]

Please dont take offense to they hypothetical problems I am going to pose, but did you think about the potential possibility of the following issues. With a normal trust, these are not issues and not addressed.

What happens when your son turns 25, but you wouldn't ever want him to have the weapon because of his immaturity, mental state, or other reason?

What happens if your son lives in a state where he is not legally able to possess the item?

What happens if your son is not legally able to possess the items because on something he has done in the past?

What happens if your chosen secondary trustee, doesn't want to server, is unable to server, or pre deceases you and lets say your sister or uncle who knows nothing about class 3 items takes the responsibility. Now your son is 25 and there is no reason why you would hesitate to give him the items as he is mentally, legally, and physically able to take possession of the items. So now it is your son's 25th birthday and your unforeseen relative gives the item to your son.

Your relative and your son have just violated the NFA by an improper transfer of the item, and improper possession of the item. Each faces 10 years in jail, $250,000 in penalties, and to top it off all of your weapons in the trust + any in their personal possession are confiscated and destroyed.

These are the things that a professionally drafted NFA trust can protect you and your family from.

In addition, Quicken must be purchased yearly to make changes and from what I have seen is not up to date currently in my state from the changes in trust law that took effect in early 2007.

Anyway, I know many people are only concerned with purchasing the items. For this Quicken or other tools will do probably do the job if filled out correctly. For others, who value their life, liberty, and freedom ( the reasons many of us purchase these items in the first place) you might consider a NFA trust.

[sluggie24]

I have already put that information in my letter to the trustee that I made with the trust. If for any reason the NFA items in the trust are indefinately unkeepable by my son they will be brought to the class 3 dealer that I purcashed them through who will sell them and keep a commision for their troubles with the remaining procedes going to my son. Very simple actually. My dealer had no problem doing that for me since I give him so much business. In the event that the dealer goes out of business, which I doubt, I will just find another and probably have to give a larger peice of the pie.

[Gun Trust Lawyer, David G]

I am glad you feel you are covered by your letter which is non binding on the trustee. In fact, it only addresses 1 of the 25 issues I have found that are not addressed with a quicken trust.

The real problem with using quicken for a will or trust is that unlike most things in life, you do not have the opportunity to correct your mistakes. If you wife does like the color of her hair from the product she bought at the supermarket, she has many ways of fixing it. If she had to live with the results and could never change them, would she buy a $20 kit at the supermarket.

Once you die, you cannot change a will or trust. You might want to see some of the mistakes individuals make with quicken in their wills. I have started a series on my website which you may want to read

[Snert]

I just edited the first post.. The UPDATE.. Just today recieved the tracking number...

TTT..

[fullauto223]

Snert sounds like you might get fondling rights soon

I just got my 2x2 pictures done, next off to my dealer with all the paper work tomorrow or saturday, Ive been swamped at work it should have bee out last wed.

[Snert]

Well shes sleepin in philly right now...Shes closer to home..

Snert.