Friend was robbed at Olive Garden

[Philadelphia]

He pointed a gun (or used some other deadly weapon) at someone and threatened to kill or seriously injure them. That's my best guess based on the charges. I don't see any robbery.

He did plea deal and was sentenced to 11-23 months in county and was released after 11. Par for the course (in philly anyway). Anywhere else he would have been sentenced to 5 years of state time.

That's what I get out of the papers you provided.

[TaePo]

Well, looks like it might be cheaper than speeding, too.
$146.00

Is that for real?

[tmg19103]

Originally Posted by Holden23

I browsed here from another thread, and after reading this decided it could help with something I've been trying to show my gf. I'm trying to make the case that Philly's violence problem is due to their poor criminal control, not because of a lack of gun control for law-abiding citizens. For instance, I heard that there are a lot of plea bargains, but have been trying to find specific examples.

Well, when I noticed that one of the people charged in this incident had a Philly address, I wanted to see if I could look up the records here:
http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/WebDock...a.aspx?mode=mc

I could, and from what I can tell, he was originally charged with 6 felonies and 5 misdemeanors. But from what I can tell, all of that was dropped and he was eventually charged with a 3rd degree misdemeanor for harassment and all the gun stuff was dropped.

I'm not a lawyer and don't have much experience with the criminal justice system, so I may be mistaken. I've attached the summary and docket if anyone can offer more insight.

Am I completely off-base here, or did this kid actually rob someone at gunpoint and have the charges reduced to harassment in a plea deal?

Thanks!

Are you sure you have the correct docket? This may be for another crime this guy commited. The docket you link to is a Philadelphia docket. Since the crime was commited in Bala Cynwyd, you should check the Montgomery County dockets. I can guarantee you that in Montgomery County this guy would have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and since the crime ocurred in Montco, that is what should have happened. It is in Philly where everything is reduced in plea agreements due to prison overcrowding, which only makes the crime worse in Philly as all the criminals are walking free.

[FUNDAMENTALS]

I think this question has been asked before. We know that the Criminal
Justice System in Philadelphia is out of control. What is the percentage
of persons commiting crimes who are on probation/parole from County, State,
or Juvenile Institutions? I thought that it was a small percentage, committing
the greatest amount of the violent crime. I could not remember if this was
a posted story by a Philadelphia newspaper in one of the PAFOA threads.
Any help with the facts out there?
I understand the the Corporate Line is "No Firearms" for Olive Garden
Managers, employees, etc. People that work for them must be considered
"Cannon Fodder".

[Holden23]

Originally Posted by tmg19103

Are you sure you have the correct docket? This may be for another crime this guy commited. The docket you link to is a Philadelphia docket. Since the crime was commited in Bala Cynwyd, you should check the Montgomery County dockets. I can guarantee you that in Montgomery County this guy would have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and since the crime ocurred in Montco, that is what should have happened. It is in Philly where everything is reduced in plea agreements due to prison overcrowding, which only makes the crime worse in Philly as all the criminals are walking free.

Well, I checked Montco and came up with the same. I'm not sure what happened - it looks like he made a plea deal against one of his accomplices to have everything reduced. But that may have happened in Montco before he was transferred back to Philly. I guess he was tried in Philly because that's where he was arrested.

I attached the docket and summary from Montco. This may not have been the guy holding the gun either. But regardless, going from armed robbery down to 3rd degree harassment is pathetic.

Also note that since he wasn't charged with a felony, he's still allowed to purchase a firearm. The harassment charge he got still allows him to buy guns.

[Holden23]

Originally Posted by FUNDAMENTALS

What is the percentage
of persons commiting crimes who are on probation/parole from County, State,
or Juvenile Institutions? I thought that it was a small percentage, committing
the greatest amount of the violent crime.
...
Any help with the facts out there?

Recently, I have been using this website to try to answer that question for myself:

http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/WebDock...rCriteria.aspx

You put in the person's name, and it gives you their criminal history (for PA anyway).

For facts, consider the book Armed and Considered Dangerous - it was written in the 80s, but is still very much applicable. Almost 2000 felons in various state prisons were each given 75 page questionnaires to try to determine what drives them, where they get their guns, etc. An updated version was released this year (just a new intro, I think) and I'm in the middle of reading it. If you're interested in looking through it, all but two chapters are available online, at google books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=_mc...with-thumbnail

And what you're saying is true, most crime is committed by repeat offenders. From the book above, I think the vast majority of the violent criminals they polled had 3 or 4 felony charges before their current incarceration, which may be where the idea for "3 Strikes and You're Out" legislation came from.

[FUNDAMENTALS]

Thank you Holden23. The facts speak for themselves. Which alot of people tend to ignore. I served for 27 years as an LEO. I was present at the State
Corectional Institution at Camp Hill Riot. Our Department was there. Making
a long story short. Our department toured the facility and at the time Dr.
Jeff Beard, had been placed in charge of the Institution. I asked him. "Out
of the total prison population at Camp Hill, what percent of the incarcerated
convicts were serving time there for there very first offense? The answer
was less than 10% of the 3000 plus inmates at the prison at the time of the
riot if I remember correctly. I wonder what it is today state wide. The rate
of recidivism in Pa. Corectional System must be well in excess of 75%, or so
I have heard. May be true or maybe not, as usual something is not working.

[tmg19103]

Originally Posted by Holden23

Well, I checked Montco and came up with the same. I'm not sure what happened - it looks like he made a plea deal against one of his accomplices to have everything reduced. But that may have happened in Montco before he was transferred back to Philly. I guess he was tried in Philly because that's where he was arrested.

I attached the docket and summary from Montco. This may not have been the guy holding the gun either. But regardless, going from armed robbery down to 3rd degree harassment is pathetic.

Also note that since he wasn't charged with a felony, he's still allowed to purchase a firearm. The harassment charge he got still allows him to buy guns.

Disgraceful. This guy should have been locked up for some time and prohibited from firearm ownership as a felon.

[Holden23]

Originally Posted by tmg19103

Disgraceful. This guy should have been locked up for some time and prohibited from firearm ownership as a felon.

I looked up the other guys involved.

The Montalmont brothers got similar treatment to their buddy Kendall, having everything dropped but the felony "Conspiracy Engaging - Robbery-Inflict Serious Bodily Injury" in exchange for their testimony. They were each given 11-23 months. But there's a Petition to Exonerate scheduled for 6/3/08.

As for Mr. Harris, who everyone seems to have testified against, only the robbery charge stuck, putting him away for 2-4 years.

[yetidave]

Originally Posted by 1FingrCHan

They robbed in Bala Cynwyd? I thought that is a Philly suburb that is "relatively" safe from all the crime in the city. Guess I got to watch where me foot is going, he he heh..


1FingrCHan

That Olive Garden is right on City Line Ave. Walk across the street and you're in one of Philly's worst 'hoods. I waited tables at that dump for like 30 minutes when I was in my early 20's.