A sign causes lawsuit

[Chunky Monkey]

So now you can't refuse service if they don't speak english. What's next, you can't refuse service to someone who smells of a dead animal drug through manure?

Great now where am I going to drink?

Hey the bar owner is an American citizen, therefore he has no rights (at least thats the way it seems any more). I am surprised that he don't have to serve them free drinks if they are illegial aliens. That would go with their free health insurance.

Man can you imagine what this country will be like in 10 or 20 years. This country is going into the crapper!!

[phillyd2]

Originally Posted by budney

I don't. What good is accomplished by forcing someone to associate against his will? If a racist only allows whites in his shop, then anyone who doesn't like his bigotry will go somewhere else. He will eventually be driven out of business.

--Len.

Yeah, that worked well in Mississippi for 150 years.

[budney]

Yeah, that worked well in Mississippi for 150 years.

You're saying that the lynchings that followed desegregation were better? It isn't easy or quick to convert people from their narrow-mindedness--but that doesn't justify doing it forcibly. Howsabout trying to force Sunni and Shia to like each other over there in Iraq? Think it's as easy as forcing them to use the same restaurants?

Force is justified in self-defense. Initiation of force is never justified.

--Len.

[NineseveN]

One wonders how Private Property Rights figure into some of the arguments here...

[lexington86]

Originally Posted by phillyd2

Oh, I'm sorry. I did not know you were looking for laws to make sense. Good luck with that.

Heh... it's not often that a comment makes me feel the need to laugh and cry at the same time...

[Frenchy]

Yeah it should have read, we only serve clients in the official United States language...


Oh wait, i would flunk that Citizens test, the US does not have an official Language... Lets see, there where the Native Americans, they spoke Cree and other languages no longer official, there where the French, hmm they where bought out of Ohio and Pennsylvania... Gosh, maybe we should use the language of a founder of America that never stepped foot in America, Columbus... Wait, that would be spanish right? Cant do that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languag..._United_States seems there is no real language in the US, yunz jus gotta liv wit it.

[LastManOut]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

Yeah it should have read, we only serve clients in the official United States language...


Oh wait, i would flunk that Citizens test, the US does not have an official Language... Lets see, there where the Native Americans, they spoke Cree and other languages no longer official, there where the French, hmm they where bought out of Ohio and Pennsylvania... Gosh, maybe we should use the language of a founder of America that never stepped foot in America, Columbus... Wait, that would be spanish right? Cant do that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languag..._United_States seems there is no real language in the US, yunz jus gotta liv wit it.

A burning question I've had, How many centuries must one's ancestors live some place before they are considered Native-_________ ? Would 3.25 centuries be long enough?
Besides, the local dialect and accompanying accent here is Pennsylvania Dutch (Deutsch/ German). I don't see Home Depot sub-titles in PA Dutch. What about that?

[soberbyker]

Originally Posted by Siobhra

BTW in Philly PA there is a steak shop named Gino's. They have a sign saying the same thing. And they have given up trying to make him remove it.

from .... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198757,00.html

Philadelphia's Geno's Steaks Adopts English-Only Ordering Policy
Thursday, June 08, 2006


PHILADELPHIA — Bistec con queso? Not at Geno's Steaks.

An English-only ordering policy has thrust one of Philadelphia's best-known cheesesteak joints into the national immigration debate.

Situated in a South Philadelphia immigrant neighborhood, Geno's -- which together with its chief rival, Pat's King of Steaks, forms the epicenter of an area described as "ground zero for cheesesteaks" -- has posted small signs telling customers, "This Is AMERICA: WHEN ORDERING `SPEAK ENGLISH."'

"They don't know how lucky they are. All we're asking them to do is learn the English language," said Geno's owner Joseph Vento, 66. "We're out to help these people, but they've got to help themselves, too."

Vento, whose grandparents struggled to learn English after immigrating from Sicily in the 1920s, said he posted the sign about six months ago amid concerns over immigration reform and the increasing number of customers who could not order in English when they wanted Philly's gooey, greasy specialty -- fried steak, sliced or chopped, in a long roll, with cheese and fried onions.

Of course, it's not as if native Philadelphians speak the King's English either. A Philadelphian might order a cheesesteak by saying something like, "Yo, gimme a cheesesteak wit, will youse?" ("Wit," or "with," means with fried onions.) To which the counterman might reply: "Youse want fries widdat?"

The traditionally Italian community near Geno's has become more diverse over the decades. Immigrants from Asia and Latin America have moved in, joining longtime residents and young professionals seeking reasonably priced rowhouses. In the past 10 years, an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 Mexican immigrants -- many of them here illegally, community leaders say -- have settled in South Philly.

Vento said his staff is glad to help non-native speakers order in English and has never turned someone away because of a language barrier.

But the policy has "really upset a lot of a people," said Brad Baldia of Day Without An Immigrant, a coalition of immigrant groups. "For some people, I think we're just going to say, `Le gusta Pat's."'

Juntos, a Hispanic neighborhood organization, said it plans to send people to Geno's to try to order in Spanish and may pursue court action, depending on what happens.

"His grandparents encountered the same racism and the same xenophobia," said Peter Bloom, the group's director. "Why would he begin that process over again?"

Vento said he has gotten plenty of criticism and threats. One person told him they hoped one his many neon signs flames out and burns the place down, he said. But he said he plans to hold his ground.

Customers placing orders on a recent morning seemed unfazed.

Angelica Marquez, 22 and originally from Puerto Rico, ordered in well-spoken English, but said some of her relatives struggle with the language. "They always come and just say `cheesesteak,"' Marquez said, adding that the policy "bothers her some" but not enough to keep her away.

When a non-English speaking customer showed up at the window a short time later, a clerk patiently coached him through the process. Eventually, both said "cheesesteak."

Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells "freedom fries" to protest France's opposition to the Iraq war. He rails against Mumia Abu-Jamal, the black man who was convicted of killing police Officer Daniel Faulkner in 1981 and has become a cause celebre among some death penalty opponents. Memorials to Faulkner are posted at his shop.

Those who market the city, often using images of Geno's and other famous steak shops, are watching with concern.

"I certainly wouldn't want a national audience to think it represented all of the wonderful cheesesteak makers in the whole city," said Meryl Levitz, president and chief executive of the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corp. "This isn't representative of the Philadelphia attitude."

Competitors are seizing on the controversy.

Tony Luke's issued a statement saying it welcomes all customers "whether or not they speak a `wit' of English."

And a manager at Pat's, Kathy Smith, said of Geno's English-only policy: "That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. I'd rather listen to the Spanish than the foul language of the college students."

[soberbyker]

Then, about a month after the Geno's sign getting national attention came this from the Pittsburgh area ...

from .... http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06183/702514-56.stm

Restaurateur makes waves with roadside opinions

Sign attracts attention across the nation, Web sales
Sunday, July 02, 2006

By Caitlin Cleary
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The sign in front of Casa D'Ice Restaurant & Lounge never attracted much attention. The plain white marquee was one small tree in a dense forest of commerce on Route 30 in North Versailles: gas stations, exotic male dance clubs, pet emporiums, glass block installation firms, poultry wholesalers. Its dinner and drink specials were easily missed by commuters cresting the hill, and owner Bill Balsamico changed its message every week in relative obscurity.

But that was before the invasion of Iraq turned into a bloody insurgency, before gas prices jumped and before immigration became a topic of political debate everywhere, from TV, radio and Internet blogs to the U.S. Congress. That was before millions took to the streets of American cities in all manner of protest, and before President Bush deployed thousands of National Guard troops to secure the U.S. border with Mexico against illegal immigrants.

Today, Mr. Balsamico is enjoying fame and fortune as author of the controversial, some might call them offensive, political slogans he posts regularly on his humble sign. The messages, which use ethnic slurs, sexual imagery and barely veiled obscenities in making their points, are meant to stick in your head, or in your craw. In the business of hospitality, they are the opposite of it, yet they have garnered legions of fans. A few examples, with some slurs and profanities omitted:

"American Paying Over 3 For Gas & Strippers at Duke University, Both are Receiving Non Consensual Sex."

"Don't Disrespect This Country ... Push 1 to Proceed in English, Push 2 for Deportation."

In addition to tirades on immigration and high gas prices, Mr. Balsamico's signs occasionally touch on other subjects in the news, from Michael Jackson's child molestation trial to seat belt laws and property taxes. But interest in the signs has surged recently, mostly because of the sudden prominence of immigration in the national consciousness.

Mr. Balsamico is called upon frequently for interviews with talk radio programs from North Carolina to Alaska. He has received thousands of e-mails and phone calls from supporters around the country. The exposure has brought more business into Casa D'Ice, Mr. Balsamico said, and has led to a successful merchandise store on the restaurant's Web site.

There, he sells T-shirts, hats, coffee mugs and plush teddy bears printed with such slogans as, "At the Current Rate of Legal & Illegal Aliens Entering This Country, Aug. 2013 Will Be Designated White History Month." Perfect for dressing up any wall.

And nothing says "Hug me" like a baby bib reading, "This is America: Why Must We Press 1 To Proceed In English?" the most popular and best-selling slogan. The bib is made in China.

Soon after Mr. Balsamico does an interview with a talk radio station, orders start pouring in from that particular area of the country, he said. The Casa D'Ice Web site has crashed several times from the flood of interest.

"It just started getting crazier and crazier," he said.

Some have dismissed Mr. Balsamico's signs as a marketing ploy that alienates a segment of the population and will ultimately backfire on his business. Others have praised him for saying what they say much of the country is thinking.

The North Versailles Police Department has stopped by Casa D'Ice after receiving occasional complaints from offended people, usually mothers with young children, Mr. Balsamico said. "I apologize for that when they call," he said.

Mr. Balsamico, 60, a native Pittsburgher and the grandson of an Italian immigrant, grew up on Larimer Avenue in East Liberty. He began making the signs shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and the U.S. air strikes on Afghanistan. When he closes the bar at 2 a.m., it takes him a couple of hours to unwind. That's when he watches cable news and gets "irked" by current events.

"Whenever something in the news makes me mad, I just grab the ladder and go out there," he said. "Amazingly, everybody's in agreement with it and in support of it."

Not everyone is in Mr. Balsamico's camp, however.

The signs are evidence of a certain "smallness of mentality" that is surprising in an area so small, said Victor Diaz, chief executive officer of the Pittsburgh Metropolitan Area Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, who heard about the signs in news reports and called them "divisive."

"I'm a Cuban-American, and I'm used to this kind of thing," Mr. Diaz said. "I'm just used to seeing it in bigger venues, bigger cities, where people are more global. This area needs immigration. It needs globalization, period."

Providing an option to serve Spanish-speaking customers in Spanish is just good business, said Mr. Diaz, who is a business owner and a legal immigrant "like 90 percent of the Hispanics in this country." Mr. Balsamico is "excluding a certain percentage of the population."

"We're less than 2 percent of the population here," Mr. Diaz said. "We're not that significant now, but someday, we will be, and he'll be digging his own grave."

Mr. Balsamico said he wanted to jar "passive" people out of their daily commutes, to make them think and act on what they are often afraid to express. He insisted his use of an ethnic slur for Mexicans was directed only at illegal aliens, and defended his use of a derogatory term for Arabs.

"That's just a term because they ride camels," he said. "That's an ethnic slur, I guess, in a sense."

But Mr. Balsamico argues that nobody would get the message "if you just say, 'Don't give the ports to the Arabs, it's not the right thing to do.' ... If you state it in a profound way, it opens a door in somebody's mind, it triggers something, and they remember that. It's a catch phrase."

But it is this catchy T-shirt nature of Casa D'Ice's political slogans that is suspect to Mr. Diaz.

"I question the motivation of this individual," Mr. Diaz said. "Maybe it's a notoriety thing. If there was a large group of Hispanics in the area being a nuisance or a threat, but it's just not the case. ... This has to be a marketing ploy of some sort."

Nevertheless, the signs seem to be having Mr. Balsamico's desired effect on some people. Linda Nestor, of North Huntingdon, who works at the nearby Sunshine & News convenience store, keeps an eye out for new slogans every time she drives by.

"It's like you never really thought about it until you saw them, and it's like, you know, he's right," she said. "Maybe he's a little forward with the way he says it, but I think he puts the point across."

Outside Kmart, which shares a parking lot with Casa D'Ice, Sam Crowder, of West Mifflin, a construction worker, defended Mr. Balsamico's right to speak his mind, right before he suggested all illegal aliens be "shot." He dismissed critics' complaints about ethnic slurs.

"It's just his opinion. He's allowed. This is America, for God's sake. Why should we have to select 1 to speak in English?"

Pictures of Mr. Balsamico's signs have been linked to on blogs such as the counterintuitively named wehategringos.com and generated nearly three weeks of heated back-and-forth on a site totally unrelated to immigration. In the end, a moderator at thenextwave.com had to step in and gently remind irate posters that he had been hoping to solicit comments on Mr. Balsamico's marketing campaign, not multiculturalism, illegal immigration or the relative merits of Canada vs. the USA.

Mr. Balsamico is enjoying his fame, the booming merchandise business, the strangers who know his name, the phone calls from people all over the country who "talk to you like they know you, like you're their friend.

"I hope it goes on a little bit more," he said. "I don't plan on stopping."

[budney]

Money quote:

"I question the motivation of this individual," Mr. Diaz said. "Maybe it's a notoriety thing. If there was a large group of Hispanics in the area being a nuisance or a threat, but it's just not the case. ... This has to be a marketing ploy of some sort."

Well, duh! How dense can a guy be?

--Len.