Another LTCF shooting!

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by Autonomous

.......
GunLawyer....
I often wonder about the disproportionate punishment proposal. I guess I would not want to trust any person with this kind of power. Thinking of how easily it is to corrupt people and to manipulate the system I am afraid of our government having this power to use on criminals.
One of the problems with that sandy nation you alluded to is that the ruling family has used this disproportionate system of punishment to keep all sorts of people from attempting to take power (or even living life styles that are deemed immoral...not a fan of blasphemy being a capital offence). We happen to support them cause lets face it allies are in short supply in that area. But it is directly at the cost of individual citizens of those country's....
I just don't trust that power in anyones hands...
Now if it happens in a situation like this I am in full support of people playing a armed roll in defending themselves and others from a attack....
-A

Well, we have 3 options: Ignore crimes; let victims and relatives and passers-by seek retribution as they see fit; or vest authority for punishing crimes with the government.

Allowing every citizen to act as judge and jury and executioner is a bad idea, it leads to vendettas that last for years. It also causes killings over "disrespect". Killing criminals when caught in the act of robbery, assault, or rape seems like a workable idea, but allowing everybody with a few spare hours to play Judge Dredd is a bad notion.

Ignoring crimes doesn't really merit discussion outside of England.

So we have to vest the power of retribution and deterrence in the government. Whether we lop off hands or impose probation or make people wear ankle monitors, it's all just a question of degree. We need to have sanctions that deter crime, and if they don't, we need to beef them up. Having written rules and transparency in the process should prevent the USA from having a Gestapo and Gulags.

[jtkratzer]

Seems the business owner gets it and the article conveys his views about self-defense pretty well.

[Slingshot Engaged]

"Police said a preliminary examination of the TEC-9 showed the weapon was jammed, indicating that the trigger was pulled at some point."

Those scary looking TEC-9's are known for doing this, I wonder at what point the trigger was pulled, its a good thing it jammed.

[Pector55]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

Seems the business owner gets it and the article conveys his views about self-defense pretty well.

Exactly! ...and it justifies the drive to Lancaster for our next battery purchases. I want to support businesses that support us.

Power Pro Battery House FTW!

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by Pector55

Exactly! ...and it justifies the drive to Lancaster for our next battery purchases. I want to support businesses that support us.

Power Pro Battery House FTW!

If you're in town on Tuesday evening, there is a place north of Manheim on called the Farmer's Hope Inn...Tuesday is the wing special and trivia night...good times. Cat's Meow is close to where the shooting occurred and they have good food too.

[Evolution]

Follow up from the would be robber's foster parents... link can be found here:

http://www.wgal.com/news/16962855/detail.html#



Parents Don't Blame Man Who Shot Teen

MANHEIM, Pa. -- A man was shot and killed during an attempted robbery in Manheim, Lancaster County, on Tuesday morning, police said.

The manager of the Power Pro Battery shop on West Stiegel Street told police two armed men tried to rob him early Tuesday morning as he was opening the store.

The manager pulled out his gun and shot 19-year-old Kevin Smith twice, police said.

Smith and the other would-be robber ran, but Smith collapsed two blocks away, police said.

Smith's parents said their son never meant to hurt anyone.

They adopted him after he'd been in at least 10 foster homes

They said he had serious mental problems and was on medication.

They said their son may have just been following along with the other robber.

They don't blame the man who shot him.

"What my son done was pointed a gun at another person, which is wrong and I know that," said Jack Smith, Kevin's father.

They may have surveillance pictures of the second man in the attempted robbery, police said.

[jtkratzer]

Sad for them their son is dead, but at least they have the sense to know what the guy did was wrong and they're not out there crying for the manager's head. They seem to realize that if their son didn't do what he did that morning, he'd still be alive and they understand it's their son's fault, it was his decision and he faced the consequences.

[Falcon118]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

Sad for them their son is dead, but at least they have the sense to know what the guy did was wrong and they're not out there crying for the manager's head. They seem to realize that if their son didn't do what he did that morning, he'd still be alive and they understand it's their son's fault, it was his decision and he faced the consequences.

Couldnt have said it better. +1

[Brown-Bear]

Originally Posted by Brown-Bear

A sucking chest wound is the laymans term for a punture wiund to the plueral space of either one or both lungs. Basically in a shoting the bullet passes thru the skin, subcutaneous tissue as well as the muscle. The thru the plureal space which is a thin membrane that surounds the lungs, and keeps the safely encased in an airtight chamber. In order to actually have a sucking chest wound both this membrane as well as the lung itself must be punctured.

The "sucking" sound comes from the patient exhaling, not inhaling. When we inhale our diaphragms pull down, the intercostal muscles(small fibers between the ribs) expand increasing the volume of our chest cavity, causing air to rush into the lungs via the trachea. When we exhale the opposite takes place. The lung deflates and air is expelled from the lungs. If their is a puncture, air from outside the body rushes into the chest cavity during exhalation, which inturns inhibits the chest cavity from expanding on the next breath. Ecah subsequent breath will less efective than the previous one. In extreme caes we can see trachial deviation. The trachea will actaully shift to the uninjured side to make a more direct route to the most productive lung.

They are most certainly dangerous, but not typically fatal if properly treated. Hope that helps.

Dave.

Mobile Intensive Care Unit, EMT-B, MA.

Originally Posted by headcase

A gallon size ziplock bag and duct tape are always in my make shift A-bag. Cut bag in half to make two seperate squares, place inside side of one down centered over wound. Duct tape three sides, on the inhale, leaving the nearest arm side open. On exhale, plastic should tighten over wound, making an air tight seal. Roll victim over on side, so wound is close to ground, this allows fluid to drain from chest cavity, allowing expansion room for lung...

Have not had to do one for quite a few years, but I believe I remember the procedure correctly......

Yep. That'd do it. An occlusive dressing is what you have made there. We carry gauze pads that have ben saturated by vasaline, but usually we jjust toss them and use bags or the foil that the oclusives are packaged in.

Dave.

[MrUgly]

One point no one else has made which makes me itch...

Originally Posted by K9346

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/224813

Both suspects fled east on foot, but the wounded robber collapsed about 400 yards away on West Stiegel Street, bleeding profusely from his chest.

Kind of want to know what he was carrying. If the bad guy gets nailed in the chest and can run 400 yards with a sucking chest wound, I hope to hell he fired a .22. If it was larger, I may have to rethink my CC weapon.