Dickson City: Police Report shows confusion on gun dispute

[gnbrotz]

http://tinyurl.com/6jmg2n

Report shows confusion on gun dispute with police report
BY CHARLES SCHILLINGER
STAFF WRITER

05/20/2008

Police officers and prosecutors seemed either unfamiliar with the law or unprepared May 9 with how to handle a dozen customers at Old Country Buffet who were openly carrying guns, a Dickson City police report shows.

Read the police report

Police officers and prosecutors seemed either unfamiliar with the law or unprepared May 9 with how to handle a dozen customers at Old Country Buffet who were openly carrying guns, a Dickson City police report shows.

But Assistant District Attorney Corey Kolcharno said he and police handled the situation as best they could given that one customer had not fully cooperated with police.

That customer, Richard Banks, of Mountaintop, had his weapon confiscated for not carrying a concealed-weapons permit and was initially arrested for disorderly conduct and failure to carry a license for the weapon.

Mr. Kolcharno said that might have been avoided had he known Mr. Banks was a federal firearms dealer, exempt from carrying a license for a concealed gun. No charges were filed against Mr. Banks.

“It wasn’t a rash decision,” said Mr. Kolcharno, who initially approved charges. “We were cautious to protect the rights of both those openly carrying and those lawfully carrying a gun, but also the legitimate concern for those (at Old Country Buffet).”

‘Mistakes’ alleged

An attorney representing Mr. Banks said law enforcement made “major mistakes” throughout the entire incident at the Dickson City restaurant.

What attorney Brian Collins said he read in the report was police officers rounding up and grouping together customers. And members of the group — later referred to on gun-rights Web sites as the “Dickson Dozen” — were then asked to provide either concealed-weapons permits or, for those just openly carrying, identification.

“It sounds like a bad ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ episode,” said Mr. Collins, of Allentown.

Dickson City police officers Karen Gallagher and Anthony Mariano responded to the restaurant at 6:30 p.m. and talked with several customers who said they were frightened by customers who were openly armed. Police later followed up with witnesses, the report noted. One witness reported that one member of the group, when he noticed someone glancing at him, said: “Don’t worry, honey, you are in the safest place in Dickson City right now.”

When police entered the restaurant, the report indicates the officers asked those with guns to step outside — including one man who had a handgun holstered at his side as he sat at a table feeding his baby.

Taking numbers

After establishing identification for all except Mr. Banks, police took their guns and wrote down serial numbers at the request of Police Chief William Stadnitski.

Mr. Banks was the only one of the group who refused to provide police with any official identification, although he said he was carrying a concealed weapon. The incident report indicated he was willing to verbally identify himself.

Police said they found Mr. Banks’ concealed 9mm “was not registered.” The report said Mr. Kolcharno advised police to “take the weapon due to it not being registered.”

Mr. Collins claims police should not have confiscated Mr. Banks’ weapon.

“The misnomer is a firearm must be ‘registered’ in your name in Pennsylvania. It’s a misstatement of the law. There is no firearm registry in Pennsylvania,” Mr. Collins said.

Although there is no gun registration system in the state, police can verify information about the gun through a state police database of gun sales and other databases, such as one for concealed-weapons licenses.

Mr. Kolcharno said officers told him the gun was not in a concealed-weapons license database. And he said that when he told police to confiscate the weapon, they had not yet learned Mr. Banks was a federal firearms dealer.

“I concur with that,” he said about there being no gun registry in Pennsylvania. “But licensure (for a concealed gun) — that is a whole different realm.”

He added he was not on the scene and could only operate with the information officers were giving him.

“I felt at that point, looking at the case law and consulting with other attorneys, that they should confiscate the weapon,” Mr. Kolcharno said.

Mr. Collins said Mr. Banks has not been given his gun back. Police have said he can pick it up at any time. Mr. Banks had told police he would file a lawsuit if his weapon was taken, according to the report, but Mr. Collins said he couldn’t comment on whether that will happen.

Although Mr. Kolcharno said another matter had been resolved amicably, Mr. Collins said police mishandled another of the Dickson Dozen, Roger McCarren, when, according to the police report, they found his gun was “registered” to his wife, Darcie McCarren.

The report indicates Mrs. McCarren said she gave the gun to him as a gift, but police would turn the gun over only to her. Mrs. McCarren accepted the gun, and the dispute ended there, the report indicated.

Jon Mirowitz, a state gun-law lecturer with the Pennsylvania Bar Institute, the legal education arm of the Pennsylvania Bar Association, also said there is no registration. And he added that guns may be given as gifts between spouses, children and grandchildren.

“I don’t know what police are looking at, but it’s not registration,” Mr. Mirowitz said about the police report citing gun registration. “They (police) may not know what they’re looking at either.”

Mr. Collins argued the police had no reason to compel anyone in the group at the restaurant to give either identification or concealed-weapons permits, because no law requires it.

“To my knowledge, it’s not illegal to feed your baby ... and that’s not suspicious, either,” he said.

He said there is no problem with police investigating a complaint.

“But these people were orderly. They weren’t holding people up. Some people provided identification. Mr. Banks, knowing the law, didn’t,” Mr. Collins said. “Police detained him nonetheless ... and had him for an hour in a police car in front of his family. That was a major mistake.”

Contact the writer: cschillinger@timesshamrock.com


©The Times-Tribune 2008

[Big Dog]

There was only confusion on one side!! The DC Police Dept.

[Damage control]

This was posted on the blog at the times:

These Guys are a Bunch of MAROONS, (to steal Bugs Bunny's line). They not only show up with guns exposed on their hips, sit with their families, near my table, but they say they are just like any father protecting their family. My kids were the first ones to notice them, I thought at first they were Policemen, but then when I asked the service Manager of Old Country and she didn't know anything, I asked the guy sitting two booths down from me and he gave me that line about being a father just like me. SORRY chum, your nothing like me. I was one of the people that called 911, and when the police came they asked me to wait. I got to see all these guys come out of the restaurant, some pushing out their chest, others TRYING to push out their chest but couldn't, it was funny to watch at first, spouting of about their rights, but then this rather elderly rotund guy, removed his gun, and ejected the clip and started playing with the bullets it became Scary. I for one will not return to Old Country Buffet do to them tolerating them being their, letting them back in and apparently they let them in again a couple days later. I would hope other people would stop going to, and yes we used to go to Old Country buffet a Lot!
Patrick Murphy, Scranton, Pa

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site...=61&maxrows=10

[rev214]

... I for one will not return to Old Country Buffet.... I would hope other people would stop going to, and yes we used to go to Old Country buffet a Lot!
Patrick Murphy, Scranton, Pa

see, we can find common ground with the sheepies...

[RugerNiner]

This is on the Police Departments website for call that night.

05/11/08 6:32pm To the Old Country Buffet on a male openly carrying a handgun, restaurant cancelled complaint enroute.

[markheck1]

Originally Posted by Damage control

This was posted on the blog at the times:




http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site...=61&maxrows=10

ASk him if he was pushing his chest out while he watching the police trample on someone elses rights in his name.....

and remind him that it's HIS fault that the "elderly rotund" man had to remove and clear his firearm....

gee when nothing else works, start using thinly veiled personal attacks...go figure.....

[str8shooter]

Assistant District Attorney Corey Kolcharno said he and police handled the situation as best they could given that they were clueless as to what the law was regarding open carry of firearms.

There, fixed that.

Mr. Kolcharno said officers told him the gun was not in a concealed-weapons license database

Even after more than 10 days to think about it and prepare an accurate statement, the ADA still says something stupid like this.

“I felt at that point, looking at the case law and consulting with other attorneys, that they should confiscate the weapon,” Mr. Kolcharno said.

Yeah, I'm sure that's just what he did. I'd love to see what case law he looked at that led him to the conclusion that the GUN should be confiscated and who the attorneys were that he consulted with and agreed.

These guys have had over a week to think about it and get their story straight, yet they dig themselves in deeper with statement to the press. A simple, "we're sorry, we'll go over it at our next training meeting to make sure everyone in the department is properly educated and trained to handle a situation like this in the future" could have put this to bed an hour after it happened, and everyone might have shaken hands and walked away, but the egos involved just couldn't back off once they started proving their ignorance.

[Mike]

UPDATE: Video of Lackawanna County Assistant District Attorney Kolcharno analyzing Pennsylvania case law requiring handguns to be "registered to" open and concealed carriers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiROg...eature=related

----

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site...d=590572&rfi=8

Report shows confusion on gun dispute with police report

BY CHARLES SCHILLINGER
STAFF WRITER

05/20/2008

Police officers and prosecutors seemed either unfamiliar with the law or unprepared May 9 with how to handle a dozen customers at Old Country Buffet who were openly carrying guns, a Dickson City police report shows.

Read the police report at http://scrantontimestribune.com/proj...licereport.pdf

Police officers and prosecutors seemed either unfamiliar with the law or unprepared May 9 with how to handle a dozen customers at Old Country Buffet who were openly carrying guns, a Dickson City police report shows.

But Assistant District Attorney Corey Kolcharno said he and police handled the situation as best they could given that one customer had not fully cooperated with police.

That customer, Richard Banks, of Mountaintop, had his weapon confiscated for not carrying a concealed-weapons permit and was initially arrested for disorderly conduct and failure to carry a license for the weapon.

Mr. Kolcharno said that might have been avoided had he known Mr. Banks was a federal firearms dealer, exempt from carrying a license for a concealed gun. No charges were filed against Mr. Banks.

“It wasn’t a rash decision,” said Mr. Kolcharno, who initially approved charges. “We were cautious to protect the rights of both those openly carrying and those lawfully carrying a gun, but also the legitimate concern for those (at Old Country Buffet).”

‘Mistakes’ alleged

An attorney representing Mr. Banks said law enforcement made “major mistakes” throughout the entire incident at the Dickson City restaurant.

What attorney Brian Collins said he read in the report was police officers rounding up and grouping together customers. And members of the group — later referred to on gun-rights Web sites as the “Dickson Dozen” — were then asked to provide either concealed-weapons permits or, for those just openly carrying, identification.

“It sounds like a bad ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ episode,” said Mr. Collins, of Allentown.

Dickson City police officers Karen Gallagher and Anthony Mariano responded to the restaurant at 6:30 p.m. and talked with several customers who said they were frightened by customers who were openly armed. Police later followed up with witnesses, the report noted. One witness reported that one member of the group, when he noticed someone glancing at him, said: “Don’t worry, honey, you are in the safest place in Dickson City right now.”

When police entered the restaurant, the report indicates the officers asked those with guns to step outside — including one man who had a handgun holstered at his side as he sat at a table feeding his baby.

Taking numbers

After establishing identification for all except Mr. Banks, police took their guns and wrote down serial numbers at the request of Police Chief William Stadnitski.

Mr. Banks was the only one of the group who refused to provide police with any official identification, although he said he was carrying a concealed weapon. The incident report indicated he was willing to verbally identify himself.

Police said they found Mr. Banks’ concealed 9mm “was not registered.” The report said Mr. Kolcharno advised police to “take the weapon due to it not being registered.”

Mr. Collins claims police should not have confiscated Mr. Banks’ weapon.

“The misnomer is a firearm must be ‘registered’ in your name in Pennsylvania. It’s a misstatement of the law. There is no firearm registry in Pennsylvania,” Mr. Collins said.

Although there is no gun registration system in the state, police can verify information about the gun through a state police database of gun sales and other databases, such as one for concealed-weapons licenses.

Mr. Kolcharno said officers told him the gun was not in a concealed-weapons license database. And he said that when he told police to confiscate the weapon, they had not yet learned Mr. Banks was a federal firearms dealer.

“I concur with that,” he said about there being no gun registry in Pennsylvania. “But licensure (for a concealed gun) — that is a whole different realm.”

He added he was not on the scene and could only operate with the information officers were giving him.

“I felt at that point, looking at the case law and consulting with other attorneys, that they should confiscate the weapon,” Mr. Kolcharno said.

Mr. Collins said Mr. Banks has not been given his gun back. Police have said he can pick it up at any time. Mr. Banks had told police he would file a lawsuit if his weapon was taken, according to the report, but Mr. Collins said he couldn’t comment on whether that will happen.

Although Mr. Kolcharno said another matter had been resolved amicably, Mr. Collins said police mishandled another of the Dickson Dozen, Roger McCarren, when, according to the police report, they found his gun was “registered” to his wife, Darcie McCarren.

The report indicates Mrs. McCarren said she gave the gun to him as a gift, but police would turn the gun over only to her. Mrs. McCarren accepted the gun, and the dispute ended there, the report indicated.

Jon Mirowitz, a state gun-law lecturer with the Pennsylvania Bar Institute, the legal education arm of the Pennsylvania Bar Association, also said there is no registration. And he added that guns may be given as gifts between spouses, children and grandchildren.

“I don’t know what police are looking at, but it’s not registration,” Mr. Mirowitz said about the police report citing gun registration. “They (police) may not know what they’re looking at either.”

Mr. Collins argued the police had no reason to compel anyone in the group at the restaurant to give either identification or concealed-weapons permits, because no law requires it.

“To my knowledge, it’s not illegal to feed your baby ... and that’s not suspicious, either,” he said.

He said there is no problem with police investigating a complaint.

“But these people were orderly. They weren’t holding people up. Some people provided identification. Mr. Banks, knowing the law, didn’t,” Mr. Collins said. “Police detained him nonetheless ... and had him for an hour in a police car in front of his family. That was a major mistake.”

--

Analysis by Mike Stollenwerk:

Thankfully the Dickson Dozen were good guys - had they been bad guys, all evidence would have been suppressed based upon the unlawful searches and unlawful demands for ID.

Based only upon the facts as stated in the report, the police misconduct is obvious. (1) Detaining and searching people without reasonable suspicion of any crime, and further ordering a woman to turn off her cam corder. (2) Demanding ID from open carriers upon penalty of arrest. (3) Covering up their botched arrest of Rich Banks by pretending they never saw his license to carry firearms and only let him go on his word that he is a federal firearms dealer and thus exempt from licensure. This is plainly wrong - FFLs are only exempt from license for concealed carry when doing business - not at a buffet with family. (4) Seizing guns from Mr. Banks and Roger Mccarren because they were not "registered" to him. The police refusal to return Banks and Mccarren's guns to them is a flagrant abuse of power.

Sheesh! Did the police & ADA not get the memo? Rep. Cruz's 2007 bill, HB 760, to establish gun registration in PA, was dead on arrival!

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Mike

...(3) Covering up their botched arrest of Rich Banks by pretending they never saw his license to carry firearms and only let him go on his word that he is a federal firearms dealer and thus exempt from licensure. This is plainly wrong - FFLs are only exempt from license for concealed carry when doing business - not at a buffet with family.

Additionally, they did not know I was an FFL until AFTER I was released... About the same time I was putting my LTCF (hint hint) back into my wallet.

I am SHOCKED at the amount of lies and intentionally missing info in this police report.

[Damage control]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Additionally, they did not know I was an FFL until AFTER I was released... About the same time I was putting my LTCF (hint hint) back into my wallet.

I am SHOCKED at the amount of lies and intentionally missing info in this police report.

Yeah I cant say I'm surprised


DC