Ways to make our voices heard this november?

[Bmaninmifco]

Originally Posted by adymond

Personal? Where is the personal attack? The only thing in my post that comes even close is basing my conclusion about your dishonest statement of opinion. Not a personal attack there chief. Try to deflect my statement by claiming victimhood. Another card from a deck I am becoming more and more convinced you are playing from.

Or are you admiting that age is the only deciding factor in your decision making and you take offense to me calling you an idiot for it? If age is not a determining factor for you then there is no personal attack. Why don't you reply to me statement about Rowe v Wade? Or how about the health implications? Would that just get in the way of the straw men?

Again you can believe what you want. I could really care less. The card I am playing. The only card I am playing is stating my opinion. If you don't like my opinion that's fine than guess what you don't need to talk to me.

But for your clarification age is obviously a factor in my decision. As it should be.

Your upset because I said Obama will appeal to younger voters.
How dare I say that he will appeal to a younger generation.

Maybe you should read up on Roe v Wade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade
"The decision overturned all state and federal laws outlawing or restricting abortion that were inconsistent with its holdings."
Kinda means the federal government did decide what it is alright for the states to do don't you think.
And yes abortion plays a role in my decision making.

And health implications of abortion I've already stated if you chose not to read it that is not my problem.

Now since you must attack my beliefs what's yours.
Or do you just toe the party line and parrot back whatever they say?

[adymond]

Originally Posted by Bmaninmifco

Again you can believe what you want. I could really care less. The card I am playing. The only card I am playing is stating my opinion. If you don't like my opinion that's fine than guess what you don't need to talk to me.

But for your clarification age is obviously a factor in my decision. As it should be.

Your upset because I said Obama will appeal to younger voters.
How dare I say that he will appeal to a younger generation.

Maybe you should read up on Roe v Wade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade
"The decision overturned all state and federal laws outlawing or restricting abortion that were inconsistent with its holdings."
Kinda means the federal government did decide what it is alright for the states to do don't you think.
And yes abortion plays a role in my decision making.

And health implications of abortion I've already stated if you chose not to read it that is not my problem.

Now since you must attack my beliefs what's yours.
Or do you just toe the party line and parrot back whatever they say?

Stated my beliefs several times in different threads. Not going to do so again. Parrot back what is said? Nope. I'm too difficult to fit into a box. The SCOTUS is NOT the federal government. Sorry wrong. They overturned laws inconsistant with their holdings. What were the holdings? I have seen several restrictions. I think anyone who looks at abotion as a simple black and white issue is just as foolish as someone who will base a voting decision on age alone. Maybe you keep missing that little word at the end or you don't and are offended that I say it is stupid to base that decision on age ALONE. If the SCOTUS so diffinitavely dictated (hmm sounds sort of contradictory to the tenets of our nation) the issue why is it something you will base voting on? I haven't attacked your beliefs. Stop whining. Or are you saying age is the only factor in your voting decision? If it's not stfu about it. I'm not upset about you suggesting Obama will appeal to younger people. I think it is a dumb statement, but you are free to think that. I don't care. It falls into the whole "he's too old to vote for" argument which is plain stupid. What is so difficult about that.

Want to know something crazy. I have been trying to decide between Barr and McCain. Paul is a little to extreme for me. I fall somewhere between liberterian and conservative (I'll point out the lower case letters just in case you think it is an error). Neither of which is a party.

I just had to do this. Here's the next paragraph from what you quoted.

Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

The Roe v. Wade decision prompted national debate that continues to the present day. Debated subjects include whether and to what extent abortion should be illegal, who should decide whether or not abortion is illegal, what methods the Supreme Court should use in constitutional adjudication

Seems to me the debate about a subject you insist is a bedrock of this country is not so solid. I see that there is still debate and would even say some of the holdings can be interpreted differently. Bottom line is this. The decision has either already been made (what you seem to be saying) and is not an issue anymore or it is still open for debate and should be an issue.

[Lycanthrope]

We can deal without all the "STFU", "idiot" and other nonsense.

Agree to disagree or play nice.

Lycanonlywarningthrope

[adymond]

Sorry sir. If I am going to be accused of personal attacks though I tend to react accordingly.

I can agree to disagree, but I think I can make the statement that in my opinion it is stupid to do x without it being a personal attack. That was my original intent. I would just like to either have the statements responded to or not, but not claim personal attacks. Prior to that post I had not made any STFU comments. Again my appologies.

[Bmaninmifco]

Originally Posted by adymond

Stated my beliefs several times in different threads. Not going to do so again. Parrot back what is said? Nope. I'm too difficult to fit into a box. The SCOTUS is NOT the federal government. Sorry wrong. They overturned laws inconsistant with their holdings. What were the holdings? I have seen several restrictions. I think anyone who looks at abotion as a simple black and white issue is just as foolish as someone who will base a voting decision on age alone. Maybe you keep missing that little word at the end or you don't and are offended that I say it is stupid to base that decision on age ALONE. If the SCOTUS so diffinitavely dictated (hmm sounds sort of contradictory to the tenets of our nation) the issue why is it something you will base voting on? I haven't attacked your beliefs. Stop whining. Or are you saying age is the only factor in your voting decision? If it's not stfu about it. I'm not upset about you suggesting Obama will appeal to younger people. I think it is a dumb statement, but you are free to think that. I don't care. It falls into the whole "he's too old to vote for" argument which is plain stupid. What is so difficult about that.

Want to know something crazy. I have been trying to decide between Barr and McCain. Paul is a little to extreme for me. I fall somewhere between liberterian and conservative (I'll point out the lower case letters just in case you think it is an error). Neither of which is a party.

And you still seem to gloss over that fact the people will only vote based on age. just as people are going to vote based on race.
And from what I've seen when someone does not agree with your view point you get personal. Check previous posts you've made.

SCOTUS is not the federal government correct but the do decide what the intepratation of the Constitution is. They decide what laws are unconstitutional and what is not. You may believe that deciding abortion rights should be returned to the states and I happen to agree. But I also feel that the mother should have the right to choose.
And guess what there are plenty of people who base their decision on abortion alone.

[Lycanthrope]

Originally Posted by adymond

I can agree to disagree, but I think I can make the statement that in my opinion it is stupid to do x without it being a personal attack.

Understood, but there is a huge difference between saying "I find it foolish to do 'x'".....and "If you do 'x' you are a total dumb ass".

See what I'm saying?

This is debate over politics fellas. It's often messy and everyone has an opinion. Just don't take it personal and it won't get personal.......

LycanandIcangetsomeworkdonethrope

[Bmaninmifco]

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Understood, but there is a huge difference between saying "I find it foolish to do 'x'".....and "If you do 'x' you are a total dumb ass".

See what I'm saying?

This is debate over politics fellas. It's often messy and everyone has an opinion. Just don't take it personal and it won't get personal.......

LycanandIcangetsomeworkdonethrope

The sad thing is we both support some things I just happen to be a little more liberal.

[adymond]

Originally Posted by Bmaninmifco

And you still seem to gloss over that fact the people will only vote based on age. just as people are going to vote based on race.

Both would be stupid in my book. Not glossed over at all. I don't understand why you continue to harp on that. If you are not one of the people that will base a vote on age or race why are you so upset that I think it is stupid to do so. I don't understand your position on this issue. If it is only part of a decision making process fine. I don't think it should factor at all, but you have the freedom to make a decision any damn way you please.

Originally Posted by Bmaninmifco

And from what I've seen when someone does not agree with your view point you get personal. Check previous posts you've made.

Nice try. Play a victim again. Show me an example of my personal attacks on you. I have asked a few times. Please give me an example.

Originally Posted by Bmaninmifco

SCOTUS is not the federal government correct but the do decide what the intepratation of the Constitution is. They decide what laws are unconstitutional and what is not. You may believe that deciding abortion rights should be returned to the states and I happen to agree. But I also feel that the mother should have the right to choose.
And guess what there are plenty of people who base their decision on abortion alone.

SCOTUS making a decision/ruling is not the federal government deciding anything. If you believe states should have the ability to determine what is permitted in that state what is your issue with me saying I think states should have the ability to regulate abortion? You want a mother to have a choice. Fine. If the voting public agrees the state makes abortion legal. If the state makes it illegal a woman still has a right to decide what she does. She can move to a state where it is legal. Additionally I am tired of it being only the woman's choice. What if the woman wants to have the baby and I don't. I am forced to pay child support for a child I did not want. If I want to keep the child and she does not I loose the chance to have the child. You can't have it both ways in my opinion. A man should not be without some recourse in all of this since another person's decision can materially impact our basic rights of life, liberty (being limited by our need to pay child support), and the pursuit of happiness (I am now shackled for 18 years to providing for a child I did not want). The flip side is a woman has to endure pregnancy for 9 months, go through labor and give birth. I am not minimizing this, but it is a much more finite period than the 18 years I am forced to endure if she decides to have my unwanted baby. The equation is not balanced.

[adymond]

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Understood, but there is a huge difference between saying "I find it foolish to do 'x'".....and "If you do 'x' you are a total dumb ass".

See what I'm saying?

This is debate over politics fellas. It's often messy and everyone has an opinion. Just don't take it personal and it won't get personal.......

LycanandIcangetsomeworkdonethrope

Understood. My wording is not always spot on. I tend to think and speak faster than it can be filtered. I will try to be more mindful. I will also ask anyone discussing politics to remember the last statement there.

Originally Posted by Bmaninmifco

The sad thing is we both support some things I just happen to be a little more liberal.

Not sad at all. I'm really begining to be confused since it seems you have had several stances on the same issues in this thread. Try to reply to the specific points I am making and I think we can avoid a lot of the miscommunication.

[Bmaninmifco]

Originally Posted by adymond

Both would be stupid in my book. Not glossed over at all. I don't understand why you continue to harp on that. If you are not one of the people that will base a vote on age or race why are you so upset that I think it is stupid to do so. I don't understand your position on this issue. If it is only part of a decision making process fine. I don't think it should factor at all, but you have the freedom to make a decision any damn way you please.



Nice try. Play a victim again. Show me an example of my personal attacks on you. I have asked a few times. Please give me an example.



SCOTUS making a decision/ruling is not the federal government deciding anything. If you believe states should have the ability to determine what is permitted in that state what is your issue with me saying I think states should have the ability to regulate abortion? You want a mother to have a choice. Fine. If the voting public agrees the state makes abortion legal. If the state makes it illegal a woman still has a right to decide what she does. She can move to a state where it is legal. Additionally I am tired of it being only the woman's choice. What if the woman wants to have the baby and I don't. I am forced to pay child support for a child I did not want. If I want to keep the child and she does not I loose the chance to have the child. You can't have it both ways in my opinion. A man should not be without some recourse in all of this since another person's decision can materially impact our basic rights of life, liberty (being limited by our need to pay child support), and the pursuit of happiness (I am now shackled for 18 years to providing for a child I did not want). The flip side is a woman has to endure pregnancy for 9 months, go through labor and give birth. I am not minimizing this, but it is a much more finite period than the 18 years I am forced to endure if she decides to have my unwanted baby. The equation is not balanced.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/national-...tml#post412988
check post number 9

Don't trivialize the Mother is "shackled" as you call it for 18 years as well and then some.
I have stated my stances my stances have not changed in this thread.
I support mcain. His age is a worry for me. The man is 72 years old and even though he may have good genes what stress did his parents have that he will now have to deal with as president. His choice of Palin worries me ecspecially since she is under investigation for abuse of power while governor of AK.
Her stances on a lot of issue are worrisome to me.
If it was Mcain with a strong VP I could get behind I would vote for him in a minute.
When it seems the only reason he picked his VP was the get Hillary's supporters I have a hard time supporting him.
And you have to admit it looks odd bashing Obama on his experience than picking someone with less experience.

The things we support hmmm gun rights forum I wonder.
I believe states should be able to govern themselves it will never happen because we would then have another civil war but that's another discussion.