Ron Paul: Marijuana Decriminalization Interview

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Scallywag

The one thing that needs to be borne in mind about the decriminalization of marijuana is that there is a growing body of clinical evidence - from highly regarded research institutions, that associates marijuana use with an increased risk of mental illness, most notably schizophrenia. The data is associative, rather than causative as you would expect from this type of study - so although it's not possible to say marijuana causes this type of psychosis, it may be that in those who have a predisposition for schizophrenia the drug use uncovers the condition.

Basically if a close (first or second degree) relative has a history of psychotic mental illness it might be prudent to avoid pot. Schizophrenia is a multifactorial disease and we just don't know how big a factor drug use will prove to be.

Two things immediately come to mind: one is, evidence? because anecdotally, i see none...but regardless, so what?"; the other is it is a personal decision for someone to smoke. Government cannot and should not protect people from themselves and from making poor decisions for themselves.

[w1cked]

Legalize it and the govt. out of it. Remember the prohibition and how it gave rise to the gangsters? Well, you have the govt. to directly blame for violent drug dealers.

[dc dalton]

I've been saying for years it was time to legalize drugs and prostitution ... the amount of money wasted by police, the DEA and the prisons keeping people locked up for these "crimes" is in itself criminal and you and I are paying for it each and every day ... time to "get over it"

[tobor]

Originally Posted by Scallywag

The one thing that needs to be borne in mind about the decriminalization of marijuana is that there is a growing body of clinical evidence - from highly regarded research institutions, that associates marijuana use with an increased risk of mental illness, most notably schizophrenia. The data is associative, rather than causative as you would expect from this type of study - so although it's not possible to say marijuana causes this type of psychosis, it may be that in those who have a predisposition for schizophrenia the drug use uncovers the condition.

Basically if a close (first or second degree) relative has a history of psychotic mental illness it might be prudent to avoid pot. Schizophrenia is a multifactorial disease and we just don't know how big a factor drug use will prove to be.

Huh? Riding a motorcycle without a helmet is also hazardous to one's health. That's not the point. The point is, the government's got no business protecting one from one's self.

[Scallywag]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Two things immediately come to mind: one is, evidence? because anecdotally, i see none...but regardless, so what?"; the other is it is a personal decision for someone to smoke. Government cannot and should not protect people from themselves and from making poor decisions for themselves.

There is a great deal of evidence about the negative health effects of marijuana - just go to Medscape.com and search 'marijuana side effects' or 'marijuana psychosis'.
However the data I was referring to in my original post was from last summer in The Lancet (one of THE most rigorous, prestigious and respected medical journals in the world)
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...11623/abstract

They found that marijuana use was associated with a 40% increase in the rate of psychosis (primarily schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, also known as manic-depression). Heavy use saw a 200% increase in rates of psychosis. The authors themselves "conclude that there is now sufficient evidence to warn young people that using cannabis could increase their risk of developing a psychotic illness later in life".

A considerable amount of research is now being reported that builds upon this. I am a pharmacologist by training, and personally I used to be ambivalent about decriminalisation of marijuana, but this data has totally changed my mind. It is NOT a benign drug, whatever you may think. Sorry to be the killjoy.

Schizophrenia is a devastating condition that affects about 1% of Americans. It is NOT a split personality, it's really the complete and progressive corrosion of the entire personality and can lead to delusions and hallucinations, intense paranoia (government, celebrities on TV, aliens etc - the tin foil hat phenomenon really does exist), extreme withdrawal, belief in one's own magical powers. It is extremely destructive to the family of the patient, too, since one hallmark of psychosis is that the patient does not believe that they are ill, and thinks everyone is out to get them/take away their magic powers. A lot of schizophrenics end up committing suicide because of the psychological pain, or because of the voices telling them to do so.
Bipolar disorder is equally destructive in its own way.
Both of these are something you want to avoid at all costs, not least because either would be unequivocal grounds for you to be denied a firearm (I'm not sure what would be the status of firearms you already own - IANAL)

tobor: "The point is, the government's got no business protecting one from one's self." (Sorry, I don't know how to multiquote from different posts).

Actually, with the utmost respect to you I don't think the government really cares about protecting you from yourself as much as you fear. There are two BIG things it does care about, however:

1. My the nature of the disease, schizophrenia is very isolating. Patients end up in a very bad place, and because they cannot hold down a job and longer, or their family cannot cope with their condition, they don't have any health insurance (assuming for a moment that they're even interested in getting any healthcare - as I mentioned above they're very hard to treat). So they become customers of Medicaid ie the government pays for what healthcare they can get. So you can bet that the government won't have a lot of interest in legalising a drug that could DOUBLE the number of schizophrenics, many of whom will be uninsured.

2. Look at what has happened in the big tobacco and Vioxx litigation. A lot of the issues of liability revolve around 'who knew what and when?'. Same thing for marijuana - the case for the prosecution is gaining momentum about the adverse consequences of marijuana use, and this data means there's now no way on earth it will ever now be legalised. Remember, until the 1950s nobody knew that cigarettes were bad for you - in fact they were marketed on the basis of their health benefits at one time!

It's NOT a benign compound (alcohol IMHO is actually safer in some ways because we have a very clear idea of the safe dose and consequences of ignoring this: a beer a day = safe; a bottle of scotch a day = not safe).

[josh]

Originally Posted by Scallywag

There is a great deal of evidence about the negative health effects of marijuana - just go to Medscape.com and search 'marijuana side effects' or 'marijuana psychosis'.
However the data I was referring to in my original post was from last summer in The Lancet (one of THE most rigorous, prestigious and respected medical journals in the world)
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...11623/abstract

They found that marijuana use was associated with a 40% increase in the rate of psychosis (primarily schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, also known as manic-depression). Heavy use saw a 200% increase in rates of psychosis. The authors themselves "conclude that there is now sufficient evidence to warn young people that using cannabis could increase their risk of developing a psychotic illness later in life".

A considerable amount of research is now being reported that builds upon this. I am a pharmacologist by training, and personally I used to be ambivalent about decriminalisation of marijuana, but this data has totally changed my mind. It is NOT a benign drug, whatever you may think. Sorry to be the killjoy.

Schizophrenia is a devastating condition that affects about 1% of Americans. It is NOT a split personality, it's really the complete and progressive corrosion of the entire personality and can lead to delusions and hallucinations, intense paranoia (government, celebrities on TV, aliens etc - the tin foil hat phenomenon really does exist), extreme withdrawal, belief in one's own magical powers. It is extremely destructive to the family of the patient, too, since one hallmark of psychosis is that the patient does not believe that they are ill, and thinks everyone is out to get them/take away their magic powers. A lot of schizophrenics end up committing suicide because of the psychological pain, or because of the voices telling them to do so.
Bipolar disorder is equally destructive in its own way.
Both of these are something you want to avoid at all costs, not least because either would be unequivocal grounds for you to be denied a firearm (I'm not sure what would be the status of firearms you already own - IANAL)

tobor: "The point is, the government's got no business protecting one from one's self." (Sorry, I don't know how to multiquote from different posts).

Actually, with the utmost respect to you I don't think the government really cares about protecting you from yourself as much as you fear. There are two BIG things it does care about, however:

1. My the nature of the disease, schizophrenia is very isolating. Patients end up in a very bad place, and because they cannot hold down a job and longer, or their family cannot cope with their condition, they don't have any health insurance (assuming for a moment that they're even interested in getting any healthcare - as I mentioned above they're very hard to treat). So they become customers of Medicaid ie the government pays for what healthcare they can get. So you can bet that the government won't have a lot of interest in legalising a drug that could DOUBLE the number of schizophrenics, many of whom will be uninsured.

2. Look at what has happened in the big tobacco and Vioxx litigation. A lot of the issues of liability revolve around 'who knew what and when?'. Same thing for marijuana - the case for the prosecution is gaining momentum about the adverse consequences of marijuana use, and this data means there's now no way on earth it will ever now be legalised. Remember, until the 1950s nobody knew that cigarettes were bad for you - in fact they were marketed on the basis of their health benefits at one time!

It's NOT a benign compound (alcohol IMHO is actually safer in some ways because we have a very clear idea of the safe dose and consequences of ignoring this: a beer a day = safe; a bottle of scotch a day = not safe).

You entirely miss Dr. Pauls point.
It has nothing to do with what drug is better for you or the consequences of drug use.

Government has no authority to tell people what substances to use or what to do with their body.
We are not free men if we do not own our lives and our bodies. It really is that simple.
I dont care if you want to have a heroin needle in each arm smoking crack while eating some pot brownies,sniffing glue and cocaine while tripping on acid. It is none of governments business.
And for anyone who believes government should intervene to protect us it is none of your damn business.

Free men own their lives and their bodies. Take personal responsibility for yours and I will take personal responsibility for mine. You try to use the guns of government to interfere and I will defend myself with every available means.

[CarolinaGuy]

Originally Posted by Scallywag

Remember, until the 1950s nobody knew that cigarettes were bad for you - in fact they were marketed on the basis of their health benefits at one time!

It's NOT a benign compound (alcohol IMHO is actually safer in some ways because we have a very clear idea of the safe dose and consequences of ignoring this: a beer a day = safe; a bottle of scotch a day = not safe).

And yet cigarettes are still legal.

And alcohol, which has a LD50... is safer than marijuana, which has no lethal dose?

That's just crazy talk right there.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Scallywag

They found that marijuana use was associated with a 40% increase in the rate of psychosis (primarily schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, also known as manic-depression). Heavy use saw a 200% increase in rates of psychosis. The authors themselves "conclude that there is now sufficient evidence to warn young people that using cannabis could increase their risk of developing a psychotic illness later in life".

A considerable amount of research is now being reported that builds upon this. I am a pharmacologist by training, and personally I used to be ambivalent about decriminalisation of marijuana, but this data has totally changed my mind. It is NOT a benign drug, whatever you may think. Sorry to be the killjoy.

I disagree entirely. I know many people who smoke and who have smoked, myself included. I know many people who have smoked for years - and I mean years - and still do. These are all rational, functioning, professional, capable, mature people. Perhaps those with these psychoses are drawn to drugs in general. But marijuana increasing a risk of developing a psychotic illness later in life? No. I don't buy that theory at all.

Actually, with the utmost respect to you I don't think the government really cares about protecting you from yourself as much as you fear. There are two BIG things it does care about, however:

1. So you can bet that the government won't have a lot of interest in legalising a drug that could DOUBLE the number of schizophrenics, many of whom will be uninsured.

2. Look at what has happened in the big tobacco and Vioxx litigation. A lot of the issues of liability revolve around 'who knew what and when?'. Same thing for marijuana - the case for the prosecution is gaining momentum about the adverse consequences of marijuana use, and this data means there's now no way on earth it will ever now be legalised. Remember, until the 1950s nobody knew that cigarettes were bad for you - in fact they were marketed on the basis of their health benefits at one time!

It's NOT a benign compound (alcohol IMHO is actually safer in some ways because we have a very clear idea of the safe dose and consequences of ignoring this: a beer a day = safe; a bottle of scotch a day = not safe).

The government doesn't care about the number of schizophrenics; the government carries about taking more of your money and about its own growth. Government would welcome the number of dependents on government and there are plenty of liberals eager to help. There are also plenty of medical groups, hospitals, academics, etc., who would love funding for their pet projects and they are all asking for handouts from government - at your expense and at mine. Same thing in regards to your second point - whatever the hell it is.

It is a benign compound and it is safer than alcohol.

Have you ever smoked it, and I mean more than a hit or two?

[jahwarrior72]

i never heard of anyone getting baked and jumping out of a window.

i never heard of anyone smoking a bowl, and hearing voices telling them to kill their family.

i never heard of anyone ODing, or have any other extreme physical reaction, to puffing on a blunt, other than fits of coughing, and red eye.

i have seen guys pass out on the couch, who would have otherwise gone out and gotten into trouble.

i have seen guys who spent years on different FDA approved medications like prozac, paxil, and geodon, with no benefit, smoke weed, and have seen immediate results.

i have known lifelong smokers who earned their PHDs in various fields.

[CommonHighrise]

Originally Posted by jahwarrior72

I never heard of anyone getting baked and jumping out of a window...I have seen guys pass out on the couch, who would have otherwise gone out and gotten into trouble.

Answered your own question there.

Originally Posted by jahwarrior72

I never heard of anyone smoking a bowl, and hearing voices telling them to kill their family...I never heard of anyone ODing, or have any other extreme physical reaction...other than fits of coughing....

Coughing fit = cant hear the voices.

Originally Posted by jahwarrior72

I have known lifelong smokers who earned their PHDs in various fields.

You mean marijuana use doesnt turn someone into a lazy slob? That they actually (gasp) start out that way? No! You dont say!