Deer / Coyote hunters ?

[smoothy]

Wow ! This coyote hunt thing has opened my eyes further to a problem I new existed , but I thought it was more in my area. These varmints are hated everywhere. Since I've been the person running this years,,,,,,,,, and the past six years hunts, I am really hearing it. Camps in Tionesta, Moshannon, Poconos, Laurel Mtns. People wanting to sign up entire camp rosters. Stories of hunters not seeing but a few deer over days in their woods surrounding camp. Always pounded deer trails having no use, deer sign forget it. I saw more deer while fishing the day before deer season, than the entire camp roster did hunting three days. Fishing was great in the Black Moshannon. Since then I've heard similar hunting reports from all over with irate hunters wanting to slay the coyotes. Ya know, that would mean another trip to camp. That alone is a good idea!

[GRIZZLYBEAR]

I understand that the coyote may be part of the problem--but I think that main reason for lack of game (deer) in these areas has more to do with mismanagement by the State Game commission under Gary Alt's tenure.

I believe that the game commission caved in under the pressure from the auto insurance companies to reduce the number of deer vs vechile collisions and to solve this the game commission decided to reduce the deer herd in PA by the "killing off" of large numbers of does. This was accomplished by increasing the doe season (during rifle season) from 3 days after the buck season to running it concurrently with buck season for 14 days and increasing the number of doe permits in each area. Then you have to take in consideration the archery seasons, muzzleloading seasons, etc. which also reduced the deer herd.

The Game Commission got there reduction of the deer herd, Alt was under fire by many sportmans organizations and he's gone, but the DAMAGE has been done and the only way to increase the size of the deer herd is do what was done in the 60s and 70s. No doe permits for 3 or 4 years (no doe permits were sold for several years during the 60s) then as the deer herd increases go to a 1 day doe season after the buck season, and as the keeps increasing eventually go back to a 3 doe season after the rifle buck season. What's needed is a reductions of doe permits.

grizz

[Holleta]

I'm up for Coyote Hunting, a recent newspaper article tagged my area as one of the highest concentrationa of Coyotes in the State. During the last few weeks I have noticed several unexplained "tufts" of Deer hair and Turkey feathers in my fields. Either there are balding Deer and Turkey on my property or something else is going on...Hmmm.....

[smoothy]

I won't argue your thoughts and opinions about deer management but the coyote is a definate predator. Predator, that which preys on another in this case for survival and procreation of it's species. Deer and turkey, hmmmm. Set for turkey in the spring, just how many times do you get them to fire back anymore. How many birds silently surprise you. It's not because they are so smart, they want to live! Well they are smart considering that point. But grizz,,, that turkey call of mine is one my best coyote calls. Those gobblers figured out that gives them up to predation. The old bird will come maybe, and look for us acting like a hen. Quietly though, not like the old days. Ive personally seen coyote snatch fawn as they've hit the ground at birth. They sense a doe ready to drop. I have friends who very much watch their cows for the same reason. They loose calves born in the field. The yote is slick, sly and sophisticated. They'll run deer into other coyotes for ambush. Amazing animal. Man is the only predator above them in this area and we must control them. There are many hunts upcoming. Get in one or two or ten if you wish and hunt for them. You will be suprised how addictive it is. And we have an all pensylvania hunt march 2,3,4, check it out, http://tubmilltroutclub.org .

[GRIZZLYBEAR]

Smoothy in my initial post I stated that the coyote was a part of the problem but when it comes to the lack of deer, the Pa Game Commission and their policies is the main problem. I have no problem with the organized/unorganized coyote hunts and wish you all the luck in the world.

I know that the coyote is a predator and as such needs to be controlled. I have hunted coyote on several occassions and to be honest I have never seen a one when in the woods hunting for them but have seen plenty in the evenings or early mornings.

grizz

[smoothy]

Well lets look at some succesful programs. Heck I don't know I live here. It seems to me that the Ohio, Maryland, and Virginia rules of hunt don't include high power rifles. I'll go with that, 12 guage slugs no smaller. Shoot them in Beaver county also, same rules and simple. High powers only in the gamelands. For me not even there but you have to bend a little. I guess buck shot in those three acre buffer zones between housing developments. There, that covers all bases. Batter up !!

[Rule10b5]

Originally Posted by GRIZZLYBEAR

The Game Commission got there reduction of the deer herd, Alt was under fire by many sportmans organizations and he's gone, but the DAMAGE has been done and the only way to increase the size of the deer herd is do what was done in the 60s and 70s. No doe permits for 3 or 4 years (no doe permits were sold for several years during the 60s) then as the deer herd increases go to a 1 day doe season after the buck season, and as the keeps increasing eventually go back to a 3 doe season after the rifle buck season. What's needed is a reductions of doe permits.

grizz

True, perhaps for most of the state (which is why they didn't issue anterless tags in most WMUs this year), but completely untrue in the SE Pa. WMUs.

We (in southern Chester county) have too many anterless deer, if anything. Herds on herds of the damn things. Crapping all over the place, standing in the road, destroying gardens. It's insane how many we have. I only bothered to get one anterless tag this year. Had I wanted to, I could have taken at least a dozen anterless this past season simply by walking out in my back yard, pointing a finger, and yelling "BANG!"

Hell, my husky/whippet cross almost caught (I kid you not) an 8+ point buck in Oct. I let her out at about 6:30 am or so. All of a sudden she goes tearing off the deck and out of sight. Next thing I know, she's in full chase of a buck, gaining, and gets within 2 feet of him, just as he crosses the electronic fence and she breaks off. If we hadn't had the electric fence she would have had him down within a second or so. I just about peed myself laughing -- I've never seen a deer look so terrified.

[LittleRedToyota]

it definitely seems like all of the deer have moved out of the forests and into the suburbs.

tax rates in the forests are prolly too high.

[smoothy]

[quote]The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

In plain English, while I am an attorney, I'm NOT your attorney, and I'm NOT giving you legal advice.

Wow, Rule10b5 do you have to post disclaimers on your opinions. We still have free speech ,,,,,,,, don't we ? That or you've had a bad day. C'mon dude take deep breaths and count 1 hour worth of incoming fees.

[Karys]

Although I agree that the lower sightings of deer is due more to game commission policies than to predation from coyotes, I have seen and heard more coyotes at my place up in Bradford county the last two years than ever before.

We started hunting them last year. We haven't taken any yet though.

Now that deer hunting is done for the year, I look forward to trips up to camp for coyotes. The weather gets a little cold but it beats sitting at home and watching TV and helps pass the time between the end of muzzleloader and the start of spring turkey.