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Old July 23rd, 2008
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Default New Rifle Tech Offers Variable Muzzle Speed

http://technology.newscientist.com/a...d-bullets.html
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A gun that fires variable speed bullets and which can be set to kill, wound or just inflict a bruise is being built by a US toy manufacturer. The weapon is based on technology used to propel toy rockets.

Lund and Company Invention, a toy design studio based near Chicago, makes toy rockets that are powered by burning hydrogen obtained by electrolysing water. Now the company is being funded by the US army to adapt the technology to fire bullets instead.

The US Army are interested in arming soldiers with weapons that can be switched between lethal and non-lethal modes. They asked Company Invention to make a rifle that can fire bullets at various speeds.
Sniper version

The new weapon, called the Variable Velocity Weapon System or VWS, lets the soldier to use the same rifle for crowd control and combat, by altering the muzzle velocity. It could be loaded with "rubber bullets" designed only to deliver blunt impacts on a person, full-speed lethal rounds or projectiles somewhere between the two.

Bruce Lund, the company's CEO, says the gun works by mixing a liquid or gaseous fuel with air in a combustion chamber behind the bullet. This determines the explosive capability of the propellant and consequently the velocity of the bullet as it leaves the gun. "Projectile velocity varies from non-lethal at 10 metres, to lethal at 100 metres or more, as desired," says Lund.

The company says that the weapon produces less heat and light than traditional guns. It can also be made lighter and could have a high power setting for long-range sniping.

Police already fire non-lethal projectiles from standard shotguns. These are known as "beanbag" rounds, bags of lead shot which will knock down a suspect at ranges of up to 10 metres. They are termed "non-lethal", but can cause bruising or even broken ribs.
'Handgun to Howitzer'

Lund says that the new weapon system will use different types of bullet for lethal and non-lethal use. Police forces already use separate shotguns for non-lethal loads – typically marking them with bright orange tape to prevent any confusion – so this shouldn't be an issue.

The existing VWS design is a .50 calibre (12.7 mm) rifle weapon, but Lund says the technology can be scaled to any size, "handgun to Howitzer".

Steve Wright, a security expert at Leeds Metropolitan University, UK warns of the potential risk of variable lethality.

"In a high-stress, high-personal-risk zone, there will be a real temptation for soldiers to turn the tuneable lethality switch up to 'kill' mode so that all doubt is removed."

A demonstration version will be ready within six months, and the VWS could go into production within 18 months of approval, according to Lund and Company.
Pretty interesting
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Old July 23rd, 2008
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Default Re: New Rifle Tech Offers Variable Muzzle Speed

Intersting indeed. However it does seem problematic. Mixing gases to change the velocity does't see, practical. I think they'd be better of just carrying a rifle for killing, and another rifle or pistol that has rubber bullets. I can see it now, someone gets killed because someone forgot to flip a switch. Another point is that once you have selected kill and the gas is already mixed, how do you switch to a lower velocity? seems like they'd have to dry fire the weapon to clear the gas and switch magazines for less lethal ammo. too much time imho. plus in the military you never know when you will need deadly force or less lethal for.
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Old July 23rd, 2008
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Default Re: New Rifle Tech Offers Variable Muzzle Speed

WHY!?!?!?! I firmly believe the loss of backbone is one of the primary reasons our society is going down hill. People aren't as likely to do stupid shit if they know the cops are going to shoot them for being stupid.

right now they can do whatever the hell they want and get away with a slap on the wrist, they'll serve 20% of their prison time, normally with their buddies while doing 0 work and getting 3 squares and lots of chill time, and be right back out on the streets again.

Now we are moving the military to less then lethal... *sigh*

before to long we will take away all abilities to kill because its bad!
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Old July 23rd, 2008
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Default Re: New Rifle Tech Offers Variable Muzzle Speed

I can see where that would be useful in regards to budgeting IF the price of one variable speed rifle is less than the price of a lethal speed and non lethal speed rifle, but i definitely agree that it poses a huge risk. Hit the wrong button or flip the wrong switch and instead of getting less than lethal speed that knocks that slightly rowdy protester on his ass you fire armor piercing speed and he gets a hole blown clean through him for doing nothing more than screaming [insert protester chant] and knocking over a wooden barricade.

Crowd control or drug bust doesnt matter, high stress situations require equipment that is as simple as possible to handle. The more "features" it has, the more chances for problems to arise and accidents to happen. Keep the high tech, variable blah blah blah weapons where we know those accidents are limited by strict chains of commands, tanks, naval ships, etc.
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Originally Posted by jayPA View Post
Thank you; I figure just because we shoot within the rings doesn't mean that we can't think outside the box.
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Old July 23rd, 2008
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Default Re: New Rifle Tech Offers Variable Muzzle Speed

I was under the impression that it was against the Geneva Conventions (or whichever agreement mandates FMJ ammo) for the military to use less than lethal ammo anyway? Besides that, the problematic scenarios are endless...

The young soldier who forgets which setting his rifle is on and either kills someone he didn't mean to, or gets killed because he didn't dispatch his enemy decisively.

And they're marketing these for "crowd control"? How long would it take for a protester to get shot and killed by mistake?

This just has Bad Idea written all over it...
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Old July 24th, 2008
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Default Re: New Rifle Tech Offers Variable Muzzle Speed

I guess war just isn't difficult or stressful enough, as it is.

This makes sense for police, but only if there is no "lethal" setting available. It makes no sense, at all, for combat soldiers. Let's let the French test it out, for a few centuries, eh?

On the other hand, if we start getting caseless ammo into the mix, it does away with all the arguments for serialized brass, right?

How many tanks of pressurized explosive gas does a soldier have to carry into combat operations?
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