I've been asked to go on a radio show

[Mike]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

however, i would like to make sure i understand your argument. do you interpret this...

...as meaning this statute is only applicable if you have immediate access to the gun? and that the exception listed above is only referencing cases where the firearm is immediately accessible?

and so, according to your logic, you can have a *loaded* handgun in your trunk without an LTCF in PA?

Yes - the statute's proscription against "carry" in vehicles does not distinguish as to whether the handgun is loaded - it just bans "carry." However, I would unload the gun prior to placing in the trunk so as to be safer, and make my facts look better, and to enable me to claim a FOPA defense if it came to that.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by Mike

to enable me to claim a FOPA defense if it came to that.

do you know of any cases where this was successfully used in a case that did not involve interstate transit?

[headcase]

Originally Posted by Mike

I thought your performance was great, especially highlighting open carry rights and PAFOA.

However, I recommend whenever discussing PA gun laws and the LTCF requirement to "carry" handguns in vehicles, one shuold never use the word "transport."

The UFA does not ban transport of handguns in vehicles without a LTCF - it bans the "carry" of handguns. Under the ordinary meaning of the word carry, that would mean handguns carried on or about your person - and in a passenger compartment, within your "wingspan," possibly even within locked containers within that wingspan. But certainly not, under ordianry meaning, any possession of a handgun within the vehicle out of reach or immediate control of a person (i.e., locked away in the trunk).

*bold is mine

With all due respect, you need to preface that statement with the words "IN MY OPINION". This forum is a wealth of facts and opinions on gun laws and rights in this Commonwealth, and a great deal of people use this site as a reference, more so now, with the publicity surrounding Rich's arrest and the whole Dickson City incident. With this publicity, a whole slew of new users, gun owners, and LTCF holders, have joined, looking for answers. I understand that you are who you are, but anyone who reads that post and takes it as fact, because of who you are, is likely to find themselves in hot water. I too would argue, and in fact have done so, that the statute, as worded, refers only to actually carrying the firearm on your person in a vehicle. But that is how I read it. That does not make it a fact, only my opinion, and one very likely to be ignored by police and the court. I would turn your own argument against you and say, you show me one case law reference where the statute was interpreted by a Pa. court to carry the meaning you ascribe to it. Then tell people it is legal to carry or transport a firearm in a vehicle without a LTCF.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

do you know of any cases where this was successfully used in a case that did not involve interstate transit?

No, but not sure their are many FOPA cases - I am just framing my conduct in advance, hypothtically, to be able to raise defenses, should the notion that "carry" extends to possession in a trunk prevail - the prosecutor wuold be faced with multiple independent hurdles to try to bring this charge on.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by headcase

*bold is mine

With all due respect, you need to preface that statement with the words "IN MY OPINION". This forum is a wealth of facts and opinions on gun laws and rights in this Commonwealth, and a great deal of people use this site as a reference, more so now, with the publicity surrounding Rich's arrest and the whole Dickson City incident. With this publicity, a whole slew of new users, gun owners, and LTCF holders, have joined, looking for answers. I understand that you are who you are, but anyone who reads that post and takes it as fact, because of who you are, is likely to find themselves in hot water. I too would argue, and in fact have done so, that the statute, as worded, refers only to actually carrying the firearm on your person in a vehicle. But that is how I read it. That does not make it a fact, only my opinion, and one very likely to be ignored by police and the court. I would turn your own argument against you and say, you show me one case law reference where the statute was interpreted by a Pa. court to carry the meaning you ascribe to it. Then tell people it is legal to carry or transport a firearm in a vehicle without a LTCF.

I have cited to the text of the UFA - carry is the only conduct proscribed. Not transport.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Mike, I think I mentioned when we were in Dickson City, that I had seen a post here in regards to a Supreme Court decision which spoke to "carry" vs. "transport", and even specifically relating to firearms. Here is that info:

Right - the federal drug law case is not frinedly to my position, but it is not al att binding on construction of the UFA, and frankly, not very pursuasive - the tow statutes are like cats and dogs when you line them up.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by Mike

I have cited to the text of the UFA - carry is the only conduct proscribed. Not transport.

That is going to be of great comfort to someone who, having read your interpretation and assuming it is a fact, winds up arrested and possibly prohibited from owning a firearm again. I guess after that, you can always shrug and say,"Well, that is what I thought it said, guess not.".

The word carry, as you can see below, is derived from the word transport.
The first definition is the term to transport. Preface your opinions with the statement that they are your opinions and not fact, and save someone from taking you at your word and getting in trouble. You are someone who gets in the spotlight and that will lend weight to your words here, be responsible.


Main Entry: 1car·ry
Pronunciation: \ˈka-rē, ˈker-ē\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): car·ried; car·ry·ing
Etymology: Middle English carien, from Anglo-French carier to transport, from carre vehicle, from Latin carrus — more at car
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1: to move while supporting : transport <her legs refused to carry her further — Ellen Glasgow>
2: to convey by direct communication <carry tales about a friend>
3chiefly dialect : conduct, escort
4: to influence by mental or emotional appeal : sway
5: to get possession or control of : capture <carried off the prize>
6: to transfer from one place (as a column) to another <carry a number in adding>
7: to contain and direct the course of <the drain carries sewage>
8 a: to wear or have on one's person b: to bear upon or within one <is carrying an unborn child>
9 a: to have or bear especially as a mark, attribute, or property <carry a scar> b: imply, involve <the crime carried a heavy penalty>
10: to hold or comport (as one's person) in a specified manner
11: to sustain the weight or burden of <pillars carry an arch> <is carrying a full course load>

[PennsyPlinker]

Well we have successfully gotten a copy of the interview onto my computer. I am going to have to figure out how to pare it down some, since it is all one giant chunk of audio. But at least I have it. This guy is a lot of fun to listen to, regardless of what one might think about him. I didn't really get to listen to him, since I was so busy focusing on what he was saying, if you get my meaning.

[Philadelphia]

I might be getting in to this a little late but the only interpretation of the word "carry" that matters is the one made by the courts.

To the best of my recollection, carry means possession per the courts. That means, technically, you can't possess a gun in your car without the LTCF (as in no gun in the car or off to jail you go). There are statutory exceptions for when the gun is unloaded and separated from the ammo and you are headed to/from specified places, blah, blah. So, I believe Headcase is correct.

That's how I remember it.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by PennsyPlinker

Well we have successfully gotten a copy of the interview onto my computer. I am going to have to figure out how to pare it down some, since it is all one giant chunk of audio. But at least I have it. This guy is a lot of fun to listen to, regardless of what one might think about him. I didn't really get to listen to him, since I was so busy focusing on what he was saying, if you get my meaning.

You were awesome pennsy!!!!