LEO training & qualification

[policemedic]

Originally Posted by TonyF

Officers Mariano and Gallager both need an attitude adjustment. No argument there. In fact, by Mariano's demeanor in this one incident tells me he often uses heavy handed tactics and it's probably because he's not too bright (when all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail).

But on balance, I still maintain there is no way police officers, judges and lawyers should be expected to know every law on the books.

They should however be expected to handle situations professionally and professionalism was definitely lacking in the OCB incident on many levels.

See, here's the thing. One concept is paramount, and it's taught in the Academy (at least, when I went). That concept is simply that whatever is not expressly prohibited by statute is legal conduct. We don't live in Louisiana; the Napoleonic Code doesn't apply.

I have to stand by my opinion that if you can't point to a statute that is being violated then probable cause plainly does not exist. Reasonable suspicion may, and certainly there's nothing wrong with extending the detention slightly to consult with someone who may know more. Where the identity of the person stopped has been well established, there is always the option of obtaining a warrant later if further research shows a law was broken.

[policemedic]

Originally Posted by reverserboy

To be considered for my job. You'll have to be a HS grad but a 9th grade reading level won't cut it. They will want you to be older than 18.

Yeah, the 9th grade thing never made sense to me either. You can't read/understand court decisions or the Crimes/Vehicle Codes for that matter at that level. But that's taken care of with more and more agencies requiring college. Additionally, drafting legal documents such as affidavits and criminal complaints can't be done well without a solid grasp of the mechanics of the King's English.

While you can be hired legally at 18, I don't know anywhere that does. Not to say it doesn't happen, but it's uncommon.

Originally Posted by reverserboy

You will be subject to a background & credit check.

Unless you're employed in law enforcement or maintain a Secret or higher clearance for some reason, it's probably not the same. I've always found some of the questions we have to answer regarding our background to be none of their business, but that's just me. Of interest to this forum- that includes make and model and serial of every gun I've ever owned.

Originally Posted by reverserboy

Have a panel interview.

Again, probably not the same. A panel interview for a police job is not stressful because it's an interview, it is stressful and challenging by design. Panel members typically present scenarios to the candidate, and then challenge their answers...even if the answer was correct. They're fast-paced, and designed to be intimidating.
[/quote]

In any case, I wasn't trying to make anyone out to be uneducated or untrained. That's mainly because I would never be so presumptuous as to tell someone in another field what their qualifications should be or how to do their job. I simply wanted to show that qualifying for a police position, then surviving the hiring process and successfully completing the academy is not "too easy" as you put it.

[BimmerJon]

Originally Posted by ar15jules

Try getting a job as a state trooper and then tell me that again.......

I called the PA State Trooper Barracks on several occasions and asked similar questions such as: "Is my LTCF valid in DE" answer "Sure, not problem"

[reverserboy]

In any case, I wasn't trying to make anyone out to be uneducated or untrained. That's mainly because I would never be so presumptuous as to tell someone in another field what their qualifications should be or how to do their job. I simply wanted to show that qualifying for a police position, then surviving the hiring process and successfully completing the academy is not "too easy" as you put it.

The "too easy", comes from personal observation & expierence. I'm sorry in advance if this view pisses anyone off. Keep in mind,I'm not saying "all". I'm also not saying applicants are not checked out. I am saying that some parts of the crimes code needs to be taught in more detail as do guidelines governing stops & searches.

Another thing that needs to be taught is that the PSP database is not complete & it's not a crime to have a gun that's not included in it. This seems to be a recurring problem. You don't know how many cops have told me that all handguns must be registered. This is basic stuff.

[larrymeyer]

Originally Posted by TonyF

But on balance, I still maintain there is no way police officers, judges and lawyers should be expected to know every law on the books.

They should however be expected to handle situations professionally and professionalism was definitely lacking in the OCB incident on many levels.

I don't think they have to know ever law on the books, However thats why there are law books. The DA or ADA in the county could look up a law very quickly there also out on the web as well.
Here's one link
http://public.findlaw.com/library/state-laws.html

My point would be if an officer makes a stop and he's unsure of the law maybe he should carry $.25 to call the DA or ADA to find out if he's on solid ground or ice breaking up under him I'm sure the CLEO and the Solicer for the town would also have access to the law sites on line.

[BimmerJon]

Originally Posted by larrymeyer

I don't think they have to know ever law on the books, However thats why there are law books. The DA or ADA in the county could look up a law very quickly there also out on the web as well.
Here's one link
http://public.findlaw.com/library/state-laws.html

My point would be if an officer makes a stop and he's unsure of the law maybe he should carry $.25 to call the DA or ADA to find out if he's on solid ground or ice breaking up under him I'm sure the CLEO and the Solicer for the town would also have access to the law sites on line.

I dont expect a LEO to know every law, I mean i dont know every SQL command or every possible domain GPO configuration.

BUT...

If there are any laws that a cop should learn, I would think firearms would be at the top of the list. Its much more forgiving to screw up a parking ticket than not know how to approach a legally gun carrying citizen

[reverserboy]

If there are any laws that a cop should learn, I would think firearms would be at the top of the list. Its much more forgiving to screw up a parking ticket than not know how to approach a legally gun carrying citizen

YES. Especially in a state that allows OC & has just over a half million people licensed to CC.

[soulsyfn]

Here is my 2 cents with a bit of a story...

When I was 13 (many moons ago) I was riding my moped around my neighborhood in Miami and was stopped by a LEO who proceeded to give me a ticket for driving a motorized vehicle without a license, driving a motorized vehicle under age, and driving a motor cycle without a helmet. I did not argue with the officer but when my father and I went to see the judge we had to point to the statutes that proved the officer had wrongfully ticketed me. Needless to say we were able to prove that a moped did not require a license and that there was no age requirement for driving one... However, we could find nothing on helmet requirements on a moped and the judge was able to cite a law that stated that a helmet was required for any motorized vehicle with less than 4 wheels. And to quote the judge, "Ignorance of the law is not an excuse." And I had to pay the fine for the helmet ticket plus court costs. There was no grey area allowed, regardless of my age, the law is black and white.

If the public is supposed to be held to these standards why not the Law Enforcement Officers? Ignorance is unacceptable for the people that are supposed to be enforcing the laws.

[chrisjames_71]

Originally Posted by policemedic

This is true, but it is not enough. Typically, it's a 3 hour block for legal updates, combined with some other courses. This year it was games criminals play, hidden compartments in cars, and radical Islam. Add to this CPR/First Aid, and firearms quals.

We get 40 hours (16 was active shooter) and its still not enough for us. I've read the MD crimes/traffic book front to back on many numerous slow days.

[chrisjames_71]

Originally Posted by BimmerJon

I called the PA State Trooper Barracks on several occasions and asked similar questions such as: "Is my LTCF valid in DE" answer "Sure, not problem"

Its not his/her job to know DE's laws pertaining to LTCF. Should be calling DSP for that answer.