pulled over tonight on 8/22

[c.sander]

ok so i was pulled over for my registration being expired, i forgot totally my fault etc. so as im asked for my license reg insurance, there is another trooper on the passenger side of my car, i am OC'ing a 5" 1911 and figure ill tell the first trooper as its in plain view and dont want to move and hear them yell gun and be ordered out face down etc... so he asks me to step out of the vehicle and he tells me hes going to disarm me and does. then he asks if i have any other weapons on my person.. i reply yes and tell him of the keltec in my front pocket. other trooper starts looking anxious and worried at this moment. i am asked why i need to carry so many guns and what do i do for a living and why is it so dangerous. i had a stock in a box in my back seat and he says he needs to open it to make sure it isnt another weapon. not a question, he tells me hes going to open it to look and make sure for his safety.. after this is all done with they take my pistols back and run them in their illegal database..i did not have current insurance info on me, and my registration was expired.. he lets me off with a warning after talking guns for a bit seems hes a very interested person in guns himself.. he doesnt say anything about me OC'ing. but he did ask if i had a personal protection permit (lol) to which i replied i have a license to carry firearms.

question: how do you go about telling them that they arent allowed to just run your guns as regular policy?

also i feel my telling about my sidearm on my hip is why he gave me a warning.

anything anyone has to comment?

[gnbrotz]

"I do not consent to the seizure of any of my property for any reason."

[Statkowski]

question: how do you go about telling them that they arent allowed to just run your guns as regular policy?

Well, you have the trooper's name on the warning ticket, so write a letter of complaint to the local barracks. Lacking any probable cause, they conducted an illegal search using a Record of Sales listing as a registration database.

I believe complaint forms are available on the PSP website.

[knighthawk06699]

Nothing like a little illegal search and seizure to spice up your night. You could have very well told him no, not with out a warrant!!! You may not look at anything in my car with out a warrant, I don't give a flying donkey fuck if you claim it to be for you safety or not. If that was the case you could pull me out of my car and search it every time "for your safety" that shit does not fly with me. I hope you got name and badge number, file a coomplaint for an illeagl search an seizure!!!

[FromMyColdDeadHands]

Where was the illegal search and seizure? Detained for a VALID/LAWFUL reason (and I DO think its dumb that we have to "register" cars with the state), asked to step out AFTER informing them of OC (not required but not wrong). The disarmament part I don't like but the courts HAVE ruled the officers can search persons and the immediate area for their safety. My understanding of that is that if they find a weapon, they can then take that weapon until the encounter is OVER!!!

I don't agree with it, but I don't think anything these officers did was outside the law. Actually they seemed rather reasonable considering they could have screwed him for NOT having current registration and for NOT having proof of insurance.

The only thing I would have done differently is NOT have given consent for them to disarm me. I would have VERBALLY protested that action.

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by c.sander

question: how do you go about telling them that they arent allowed to just run your guns as regular policy?

Not that any of it is justifiable, but how do you know exactly what they did or didn't run your gun for? Lost & stolen is a different inquiry than checking against the "database that's not a registry that may be used to attempt to prove ownership (or lack thereof)".

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHands

Where was the illegal search and seizure? ....

At the very least, going into the car and opening the box, while the driver was standing outside the car and not under arrest.

The rules about searches change pretty much every year, usually in favor of the government, but I think that's still a warrantless search without exigent circumstances or an exception.

[c.sander]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Not that any of it is justifiable, but how do you know exactly what they did or didn't run your gun for? Lost & stolen is a different inquiry than checking against the "database that's not a registry that may be used to attempt to prove ownership (or lack thereof)".

how is checking to see if a gun is stolen any different than checking to see if its ownership in my name?

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Not that any of it is justifiable, but how do you know exactly what they did or didn't run your gun for? Lost & stolen is a different inquiry than checking against the "database that's not a registry that may be used to attempt to prove ownership (or lack thereof)".

Whichever database they looked at, it was for the purpose of finding evidence that the person with the guns was not entitled to keep them, and maybe had committed a crime in obtaining it. And they didn't have a warrant. And they took the guns without consent.

I'm not a fan of police disarming every citizen that they come across, I don't find that to be consistent with the state or federal constitutions. Checking for an LTCF once a concealed weapon is observed I can accept, but once it's clear that the citizen is carrying lawfully, I just don't accept routine disarmament for officer safety. I'd feel safer if the rest of the world was disarmed, bound and gagged, but it's not going to happen.

[gf45acp]

Question for consideration. As the car was no reg, no ins, could the officers have impounded the car, and then searched it at that point?