My early morning encounter with the new Sheriff.

[gnbrotz]

Well, I've known for some time that this was bound to happen, and today it did. Actually, I knew specifically that it would happen today, because I planned it that way. That's right, I scheduled an appointment with the Sheriff to discuss some minor issues of concern.

I had an 8:00 appointment, so I arrived ~7:50 am. I noticed the sign on the door stating that courthouse hours began at 8:30 am. Called the office number and got a recording stating hours began at 8:30 am. I saw a deputy standing inside with two security attendants, so I gave a little wave and motioned 'come here'. He came to the door.

Deputy: Yes?
Me: I have an 8:00 appointment with the Sheriff, but the doors are locked so I couldn't get in.
Deputy: What's your name:
Me: Greg Rotz
Deputy: Who are you with?
Me: Nobody, I'm just a citizen. I called last week to make an appointment with the Sheriff.
Deputy: I don't know if he's in. I haven't been down to the office yet.

He allowed me in the first of a set of double doors.

Me: Obviously, I'm going to need to check my firearm
Deputy: We don't like...You might be more comfortable leaving that in your car.
Me: No, I'm not comfortable doing that.

We enter the second set of doors, arriving at the metal detectors.

Deputy: Well, first go ahead and empty your pockets

I did

Deputy: Who do you work for?
Me: Jerr-Dan
Deputy looks slightly confused
Me: I'm a shipping clerk
Deputy looks very confused
Deputy (looking down the hall): Sheriff, this gentleman has an appointment with you?
Sheriff (coming into view): Yes, he does.
Deputy (acting very unsure of what to do): If we're going to have to handle these loaded guns, maybe we should get one of those things like we borrowed "the day we had that thing". I know they're expensive though. Unless you just want to let him keep it.
Me: No, I don't expect you to do that.
Sheriff: No, we can't do that.
Me: I understand your concern about not having a clearing barrel. When I go to the Capitol, I just place the loaded firearm directly into the locker, because they don't have a clearing barrel either.
Sheriff: OK, let's do that.

I proceeded through the detectors and placed my firearm in one of the two lockers that they have. One of the security attendants locked it and gave me the key.

Attendant: You're the only one who has a key to that.
Me: Thanks.

I walked with the Sheriff to his office. I thanked him for taking the time to see me. I told him that I believed my concerns were shared by some other gun owners in the area, but that I was there as a single individual, giving feedback on things I had personally noticed. I was not making threats or demands. He might agree with some points, he might disagree with some. In the end, it what his decision on what, if anything, to do about the things we discussed. I won't detail the entire conversation in his office, but I had an outline prepared and had supporting documents for each point. Here's the basic idea of what we went over:

• LTCF applications for Franklin County should be made available online
• Applicant's could access this form at their convenience, and not be required to visit the Sheriff's office during business hours to pick up an application.
• This could reduce the amount of time needed by Sheriff's office staff to mail out applications and save postage.
• Greg Rotz is willing to help in any way he can to help get this done.
  
  
• Instructions/cover sheet provided with LTCF applications should be revised
• Sloppy photocopies look unprofessional.
• Cover sheet instructions state that applicant should “explain” why they have chosen “Self Defense” as on option for applying for a LTCF. PA C.S. Title 18 §6109 states the reasons that must be set forth on the application. It does not require an explanation for any of these reasons, or extend authority to Sheriffs to implement their own requirement in addition to what the statute provides for.
• See attachments for examples and documentation to support this point.
• Once a decision has been made on the additional explanation, Greg Rotz is willing to recreate a new, fresh copy of the cover sheet.

*Supporting documents included an actual cover sheet used by the Sheriff's office (with the “explain your reason” portion highlighted), and a copy of §6109 with the portion relevant to 'Form of application and content' highlighted.

• SSN is not mandatory on LTCF applications
• The Federal Privacy Act prohibits any “Federal, State or local government agency” from denying “to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number."
• If current forms indicating that SSNs are voluntary are not yet being used, they should be obtained ASAP. In the interim, applicants should not be required to provide this information, and should be informed that it is not required. The correct form is available from the PA State Police.
• See attached documents.

*Supporting documents included the current form used by the Sheriff's office (not noting SSN as optional), a copy of the most recent revision showing the field indicated as optional (from the Centre county Sheriff's website), and a copy of Stollenwerk v. Miller, showing legal ruling on the matter under the Federal Privacy Act.

• Factual information should be provided to those who receive a LTCF
• Brochure could be made available on the internet, similar to the suggestion for LTCF applications.
• Many people want to be law-abiding, but don't know where to find accurate information.
• Some LEOs are unclear on firearms related points of law. The brochure clearly indicates the applicable statute and section, so validity can be easily confirmed.

*Supporting document was a copy of Pa. Patriot's 'General' Gun Rights flyer.

In the end he said I was glad I took the time to come see him. He asked if he could keep all of the documentation I presented to him. I told him that was why I brought them. He asked if I had a card. I told him I did not have a personal card, but gave him a PAFOA card, and he wrote my name/number/e-mail on the back. I told him we were not a PAC, and were not trying to offer money in exchange for policy changes, etc. We are not making demands. We just want everyone (citizen and LEO alike) to know what the laws are, so they can be followed. I also asked if he would be willing to attend a local social gathering, and he said he would do so. I promised to keep him updated as plans began to form.

When I left, there were 6 or 8 folks at the metal detectors. One attendant was processing them. The other asked if I was ready to go. I told him that there was no hurry and I would wait until the other folks cleared the area to retrieve my firearm. When they did, I opened the locker and holstered my firearm. We wished each other a good day and I headed out the door.

Two hours after returning home, I received a phone call from the Sheriff - "Where can I get more copies of that Gun Rights Flyer that you left with me?". I sent him a link, and told him if he would like some custom revisions (Sheriff's logo on front, etc.) to let me know and Rich would work with me to get that done.

[BimmerJon]

Like my burgers..

WELL DONE!

[PAhunter]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Well, I've known for some time that this was bound to happen, and today it did. Actually, I knew specifically that it would happen today, because I planned it that way. That's right, I scheduled an appointment with the Sheriff to discuss some minor issues of concern.....

Nice job Greg, it would seem you have developed a nice rapport with the new sheriff. You are going above and beyond in my opinion and deserve a lot of credit for your efforts.

Jack

[Pvandunk]

Wow man good for you to take the oppertunity to do that for your fellow Civies and leo thats a job well done man thanks

[lprgcFrank]

Greg - that was OUTSTANDING!!!!!

[TRB]

Wow. What a great encounter. Here's to hoping that the follow up will be as friendly and productive.

[headcase]

I try to do what I can, and I really do try to make a difference with the people I meet, but you, my friend, are now officially my hero. OUT F'ING STANDING!

[SteveXD]

Another nice job!

[CQB]

Outstanding!

It's always good to see that there are those out there that are willing to go that extra mile.

I am also thankful that the new sheriff received you well. It's always good to know that there are those LEO out there that are also willing to go that extra mile.

Well done Greg!

Next time we meet, the beer is on me.

[Mabuz]

Good work man. There are a lot of things that need to be "re-worked" regarding LTCFs, and you're taking the initiative there.