Character references in allegheny county

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by TheHighChild

So anyone can have stolen firearms and carry them if they have a LTC?

yes.

however, possessing stolen property is a crime. said person would be in violation of the laws against possessing stolen property.

there are also laws against using a firearm in the commission of certain crimes...not sure if possession of stolen property is one of them, but prolly is...so, said person would also be in violation of that law.

[exceltoexcel]

Well you'd go to jail for having stolen firearms..... Your LTCF won't help you there

[D-FENS]

I understand but how would anyone know it's stolen if it's never checked?

I certainly don't have stolen/illegal arms and never would. I ask this because I wonder about the ganstas around here. What if they have an LTC but get picked up for shoplifting or a traffic offense or whatever, will it still go unchecked?

*EDIT*

At what point is a firearm checked to see if it's the rightful property of its carrier? I guess that's what I am getting at.

[exceltoexcel]

Of course not, they check the serial number of every gun when you're stopped for violating the law, even sometimes when you're not violating the law. They shouldn't but they do do it on occasion.

[JLStorm]

technically as PA is a shall issue state, I dont believe they can even enforce the charecter references requirement. As long as your residential address checks out and NCIC check comes back clean they HAVE to issue your permit as far as I am aware. I am not saying that you shouldnt put references down, but unless you live in a small area and the sheriff's dept has nothing better to do, then I really cant imagine they would actually check references. Personally, I think its placed more as a deterent for someone using a family members address as their residence who really lives out of state, but that is purely a guess.

[LittleRedToyota]

actually, the PA UFA does enumerate several reason other than failing the PICS (they use PICS, not NCIC) background check for which a sheriff is allowed to deny an LTCF:

A license shall not be issued to any of the following:

(i) An individual whose character and reputation is such that the individual would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety.

there are many more reasons listed in the law for not issuing someone an LTCF, but it is the one above that makes it legal for a sheriff to require and check character references.

under Sheriff DeFazio, they did not actually call your references in Allegheny county...however, that may have changed with the new sherriff.

[JLStorm]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

actually, the PA UFA does enumerate several reason other than failing the PICS (they use PICS, not NCIC) background check for which a sheriff is allowed to deny an LTCF:



there are many more reasons listed in the law for not issuing someone an LTCF, but it is the one above that makes it legal for a sheriff to require and check character references.

under Sheriff DeFazio, they did not actually call your references in Allegheny county...however, that may have changed with the new sherriff.

Right, BUT if the sheriff refuses to issue you a license based o hear-say, it would easily be overturned IMO. No bad marks on the NCIC and a perminent resident and they have to issue the license. There is absolutely no way a court would up hold a Sheriffs decision based on hear-say. In a may-issue state that *might* hold up, but in a shall issue state...no way.

[wewo]

Originally Posted by TheHighChild

I understand but how would anyone know it's stolen if it's never checked?

I certainly don't have stolen/illegal arms and never would. I ask this because I wonder about the ganstas around here. What if they have an LTC but get picked up for shoplifting or a traffic offense or whatever, will it still go unchecked?

*EDIT*

At what point is a firearm checked to see if it's the rightful property of its carrier? I guess that's what I am getting at.

If you have a criminla record your application will be denied so no real gangstas hace licenses. Even newbies with no record are too stupid to get an LTCF, so dont worry about that. The gangstas who carry, do so with stolen weapons and no LTCF I would guess, so the law has nothing to do with it. What I am saying is the LTCF laws do not help criminals in any way.

[D-FENS]

Ok. I think I said I would followup with my experience at Allegheny Courthouse.

Not much, really. I was waiting when they opened up. The folks were very nice and joked around so it wasn't like a bunch of pissed off postal workers or anything. It was very comfortable. I filled out 1 sheet of paper, similar to what you fill out when purchasing a firearm. There wasn't even a backside. They had me file a yellow card and said they would mail me the Yellow card and I would have to return by the date posted on the Yellow card to pick up my license. They take a picture while you're there as well.

My two forms of ID were Drivers License and vehicle registration.

For anyone planning on going to the courthouse. I suggest entering the tunnel entrance from Fifth Ave. Once through the tunnel, it's immediately on the left and clearly marked "Firearms" blah blah. If you're taking a bus (Parking sucks downtown!) Get a bus that will drop you off at Fifth and Ross Streets. The Tunnel is right across from the bus stop. Otherwise, if you enter from the front. You'll end up asking 3-4 guards where the hell to go.

I was hoping to get it on the spot but they seemed to have quite a backlog of requests. I'll post back when I receive it and update on my experience.

I rate the experience at a 8.5. If there weren't a little late opening and issued on the spot, it'd be a 10 for sure but I understand and have no problem with waiting.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by TheHighChild

I was hoping to get it on the spot

they used to...i think that changed with the change of sheriff, though. anyway, still doesn't sound too bad.