IDPA Calibers and scoring

[joseywales]

Great site. I hope it takes off, as I believe the IDPA, IPSC, etc. are taking off regionally.

My question is twofold. First, I am switching to a 9mm 1911, mostly due to recoil on my elbows. I carry and practice regularly with my 45 1911, but will enjoy the 9mm more. Anyway, what grain makes the most sense in 9mm 115, 124, or 147? Or is it simpley a matter of what cycles "my" 1911 best?

Also, I read that the 9mm puts you in a scoring disadvantage, verses the 45 or 40, because it is not a major and therefore only "A" hits count. Can someone clarify what the fella was trying to say? It was an older post, but I don't see anything in the IDPA rule book, other than the scoring of different classes.

Thanks,

Mark

[LorDiego01]

I was under the impression these people shoot .38 Super

[Tomcat088]

Now I'm not a competition shooter but I read a bit about the scoring in one of my magazines a while back. Basically the idea behind IDPA and IPSC is to help people practice with their carry rigs, or tactics at least, since some classes people use guns that are more like race guns than carry guns. Anyway, the 9mm is a smaller caliber pistol than the .40 and the .45 and therefore doesn't quite deliver the punch that the other 2 calibers have (also doesn't have the recoil). From what I have heard, what the gentleman told you was true, only hits in the "A" zone will count with a 9mm, and you will be penalized for hits outside of this. I suppose the reason being that you have a bit more leeway with the .40 and .45, since they are delivering more energy to the target and initially making a larger hole, you need to have better shot placement with the 9mm. I'm sure some people would argue this point due to the improvements of hollow points over the years. It's kind of the trade off of a smaller caliber bullet that has less recoil, vs a larger caliber bullet; which is being factored into their scoring. I could be wrong, but I believe this is part of the reasoning behind that scoring system, and from what I have been told, what the gentleman informed you of was correct for one of the leagues. As I said, I'm not a competition shooter, and I'm sure it probably only applies to one of the leagues, and not the other, so maybe some of the other competition shooters can elaborate.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by joseywales

My question is twofold. First, I am switching to a 9mm 1911, mostly due to recoil on my elbows. I carry and practice regularly with my 45 1911, but will enjoy the 9mm more. Anyway, what grain makes the most sense in 9mm 115, 124, or 147? Or is it simpley a matter of what cycles "my" 1911 best?

Also, I read that the 9mm puts you in a scoring disadvantage, verses the 45 or 40, because it is not a major and therefore only "A" hits count. Can someone clarify what the fella was trying to say? It was an older post, but I don't see anything in the IDPA rule book, other than the scoring of different classes.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark, you probably want to speak to Bib about IDPA as he used to organize it for GPGC. As for IPSC, you might want to look for USPSA, IPSC is mainly out west and not seen much any more.

To the best of my knowledge, IDPA does not score on Major Minor, you shoot in your "class" and therefor are not concerned of other calibers, where as in USPSA, I do believe there is a factor of Major Minor invloved. I found this out by shooting with a mod 66 in a USPSA and having a speedloader of .357 to shoot the plates ready. There came a discussion as to wether i would classify in Major or Minot, as It turned out, it did not matter as I was the only one with a revolver, i was both the Highest and Lowest score in My group

You will find more info on http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf

[DPB]

In IDPA, a 9mm single action (1911, BHP, etc.) is an "Enhanced Service Pistol." In .45 it's a "Custom Defensive Pistol." So they don't compete against each other. Scoring for IDPA is "time plus," meaning the scoring zones are -0, -1, and -3, and you add 1/2 second to your overall time for each point you are down. Lowest overall time wins.

In USPSA, a 1911 can compete in Open, Limited, Limited 10, or, if it's not a fat gun, Single Stack. Open guns are generally comped and have electronic sights. For the others, you shoot either major or minor. To shoot major, you need a .40 caliber bullet and a 165 power factor. For minor, you need a 9mm/.38 caliber bullet, and a 125 power factor.

Power factor is bullet weight in grains multiplied by velocity in feet per secone, divided by 1000.

Scoring for USPSA is more heavily weighted for time. The scoring zones are "A," "B," "C," and "D." For major they are scorred 5-4-4-3, while for minor they are scored 5-3-3-2 (if I recall correctly.) So peripheral hits are worth considerably less with a minor caliber. Your total number of points in a stage is divided by your time for that stage, which gives you your "Hit Factor." High Hit Factor wins.

The exception to this in USPSA is in Production Class (non-single action autos), which are all scored minor.

So, the bullet weight that makes the most sense is the one that allows you to shoot the fastest while still making 125 power factor. This is usuall a moot point, since the vast majority of the 9mm shooters buy loaded ammo, since 9mm is still relatively cheap, and even if you do reload, the difference in recoil from using different bullet weights will be less pronounced than it is with a .40 or .45.

Hope that helps.

doug

[danp]

Originally Posted by DPB

Hope that helps.

doug

Welcome to the site doug, that was one of the best first posts I've seen on the forum, I learned a lot.

[DPB]

Dan,

No problem. I grew up in central PA, but haven't actually lived in PA for about 16 years. While I was working for Uncle Sam, I had the good fortune to have my last posting in an area where there were a lot of USPSA and IDPA clubs, so I got to compete a lot. Unfortunatley, it can be intimidating for guys who show up without understanding the scoring systems and what not.

I just recently stumbled on to this forum. I'm in favor of anything that encourages practical competition, since I still end up in PA visiting a lot.

Anyway, I'm more than glad to share information. I've managed to make a great many of the mistakes myself, so others don't have to.

doug

[The Drew]

Maybe a little clarification on the IDPA end of things.

ANY 1911 can be used in ESP, Only a .45acp can be used in CDP. There is no major/minor scoring in IDPA so don't worry about that.

A 9mm 1911 some say is the hot ticket for ESP since they are generally 9+1 they sometimes have reloading advantages where the 10+1 or 8+1 guns need either an earlier reload, or a reload with retention (slower).

For more details on the rules for IDPA go to www.idpa.com they have the rulebook online.

[DPB]

That's true, a .45 1911 can be used in ESP, however, there is no advantage to doing so. You are placing yourself at a disadvantage for capacity, increased recoil, and the fact that the respective classification times for ESP are faster than for CDP.

The Drew, I haven't shot IDPA in a while, what's the minimum caliber for CDP? I think it used to be 10mm, but they were talking about making it .45. I may be totally wrong here.

doug

[The Drew]

CDP is .45acp only now. The only advantage to being able to also shoot ESP is that some clubs that allow you to shoot multiple categories per match, you can compete in both.