Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets

[BurgBlazer]

I have been trolling on this site for a few weeks while doing some research on a first gun purchase. Decided on the XD 9mm subcompact for home defense / target practice.

Found an interesting video I thought some would enjoy, so that forced me to register. Round Points vs. Hollow Points... not ground breaking news, but a nice summary.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DaXcXVvRuJ8

[MarcS]

in the first 15 seconds, there was already some bad information...in fact, the entire thing was pretty much either omitted critical information or was just wrong

[D-FENS]

Originally Posted by MarcS

in the first 15 seconds, there was already some bad information...in fact, the entire thing was pretty much either omitted critical information or was just wrong

What good is making this statement without the "proper" information. I'm not saying I disagree, in fact, my understanding of a hollow point isn't to fragment but to expand upon impact. It would just be nice to cite the misinformation, otherwise you've wasted everyone's time reading your post and your own time writing it.

[BurgBlazer]

Agreed, or perhaps he was just pointing out how true the quote in his signature is

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by D-FENS

What good is making this statement without the "proper" information. I'm not saying I disagree, in fact, my understanding of a hollow point isn't to fragment but to expand upon impact. It would just be nice to cite the misinformation, otherwise you've wasted everyone's time reading your post and your own time writing it.

Well, i figure people could just refer back to the 400 posts I have on this forum schooling people about terminal ballistics, but in light of your post, here's 401

the round nose is a traditional full metal jacket bullet, made to create a bigger hole in the target

bigger than what? the permanent cavity left by a handgun round is precisely as big as the projectile. as FMJ bullets exhibit little deformation in humans, a 9mm round will make a permanent cavity about that big.

the hollowpoint has a concave depression cut into the tip, designed to fragment into pieces.

Good hollowpoints should retain their weight for maximum penetration. fragmenting handgun rounds often do not penetrate far enough to damage vital internal organs.

the most effective bullet doesn't just punch straight through the target, it creates serious internal damage.

all any handgun bullet does is punch straight through the target leaving a cavity roughly the size of the projectile. Doing serious internal damage depends on only one thing: shot placement. The most effective bullet is the one that hits a vital blood carrying structure or the CNS

if this was a bad guy, he'd probably still be firing at the police officer

really, what if that jug was the bad guy's head? what if it was a hollowpoint into the lower abdomen? Shot placement.

the bullet totally destroys the target

That's because unlike the human body, the water jug is not elastic. what you are seeing is the effects of temporary cavitation, which, while looking impressive, has no bearing on incapacitation.

on the streets the hollowpoint gives the officer more chance of stopping the criminal in one shot

Bullshit. the only guarantee of a one shot stop is disruption of the CNS. if you make that shot, bullet type is irrelevant. In reality, the larger diameter of the expanded round, when it expands, adds a couple percent if the round is such that it will still penetrate effectively.

the hollowpoint expands on impact to nearly 3 times its size

In gelatin tests, you rarely see bullets reach twice their size. you might get an extra .3" of frontal surface on a good day with maximum disruption. Hardly enough to make a good shot bad or a bad shot good.

the expanding effect means that the bullet dumps its power inside the body damaging more tissue than a round nose bullet

The kenetic energy deposited from a handgun round isn't enough to do anything. The temporary cavitation may be larger, but its effect on incapacitation is nil as human flesh is very elastic. The energy dump isn't what damages tissue, the larger frontal surface area is. Some hollowpoints also have sharp edges which can hook or lacerate vital anatomy as it passes by instead of pushing it aside. we're talking about a small percentage increase in wounding in a low percentage situation

from about 1:26 on was pretty much correct


What they missed:


-The only thing that stops bad guys is blood loss and direct hits to the CNS. You need good shot placement first and foremost. Making good hits in the real world is the exception rather than the rule, so best to have lots of bullets.

-Penetration is far more important than expansion. If you get that 1 good shot, it damn well better reach something important. The FBI recommends 12" minimum and for good reason. Less than that and you're not assured the round will penetrate far enough to damage vital anatomy. Most service caliber police hollowpoints meet that penetration requirement. In smaller handguns like a 380, you may be better off with FMJ. Once you get the minimum penetration, expansion is the icing on the cake.

-Without a hit to the CNS, immediate incapacitation is more mental than physical. Even shot through the heart, a human can continue to fight you for up to 10 seconds. Keep shooting until they stop fighting.

[toadyoforangeville]

yeah Marc hit the nail on the head in fact FBI reports show that at least 50% of hp's don't expand so shot placement is more important.

[VeryPrivate]

I have my doubts that the temporary cavity has no effect on incapacitation. I know Dr. Fackler says it does not, and he has seen a lot of gun shot wounds. But as a doctor, he sees them after the fact, not during the prescence of the temporary cavity. Having never been shot, the only personnal experience I have is being punched in the stomach. There is some penetration, but no breaking of skin and no substantial tissue damage. Skin, muscle and fat are displaced and then return. Maybe a bruise, but I can remember it taking my breath away. All of these effects were temporary, but enough to end a fight, or really piss the guy off. This might be a physiological trigger to a psychological reaction, i.e. fight or flight. But if this was the case, the presence of the temporary tissue displacement has an effect on the incapacitation of the target.

That being said, I still favor shot placement as the most important factor in incapacitation.